Exactly - change the format so that the rules are actually automatically enforced regardless of what Trump does. I honestly don’t trust Trump in the same room with Biden. I wouldn’t put it past Trump to stage a physical confrontation with him. Let’s say Trump says something about Hunter Biden or God forbid, about his deceased son Beau, and Biden then claps back with something about Trump or his family, with Trump then claiming faux outrage and getting in Biden’s face. Anything is possible with this clown.
The cornfield, mayhaps?
Where’s that weird little kid when you need him, anyway…
The polls show Biden won. Letting trump rant on like a lunatic worked.
Made me think of “Cones of silence” from Get Smart.
Right on! That’s the way to go. Trump would never agree to that so he would cancel.
Unless there is a way of muting Trump, this will never work.
Trump badgering some random citizen during a town hall will be worth the price of admission. There are very few undecided voters, but Trump making a grandmother cry would have to get a few folks out to the polls.
A Cone Of Silence. I hear CONTROL isn’t using theirs anymore.
Sure it will. Either Trump shuts up - not likely, but allows Biden to use his strengths in empathizing with the questioners - or Trump repeats his clownish losing performance in a setting in which it will look even worse. Either way, Biden wins.
The polls showed that Trump “lost” every debate to Clinton in 2016. I don’t think people understand what debates do for candidates. They don’t have a momentous impact, especially not a single debate in and of itself. However, candidates can nevertheless use any major television event that features the candidates - like a convention, town halls, or debates - to their advantage. Trump wasn’t trying to win the debate; he figured that this was the first chance Biden would be viewed by such a large audience. He wanted that opportunity to make Biden look weak and/or unpresidential. He will probably use the next opportunities to do the same thing, if he’s given that opportunity by the debate commission.
In that case, Biden shouldn’t risk winning the rest. lol.
I guess I’m swinging around to the notion that the remaining debates give Biden the chance to be seen being calm by a larger audience than he’d get at one time otherwise.
But there was a lot of feedback about viewers just saying the hell with both of them, I don;t like that.
I don’t think anyone here is arguing that this was a knockout blow. It’s better to do well than not in a debate.
I would agree that it’s better to win than to meltdown and be perceived a “loser.”
But by now we’re clearly all aware of 2016 and how the media and polls were so off base in terms of predicting the results of the race. Part of that failure to anticipate the outcome is due to the fact that Clinton was winning by most conventional metrics going into the final week of the race, and debate performance was one of those metrics.
I didn’t ‘see it’ back then, either, but what I realize now, in retrospect, is that voters have changed. We’re more polarized, and the ones who decide the race are maybe the 5-10% of voters who are really hard to pin down. What I realize in retrospect was that Trump never cared about winning the debates. He didn’t care then, and he doesn’t care now. But they’re still a part of his strategy. He’s using them to project his ‘tough guy’ image to his voters - not Biden’s voters, but his own base. He wants to project to his base and those who lean his way that he is dominant, but more importantly, he’s doing this for voters who really don’t know what they’re looking for in a candidate.
But the other thing Trump is aiming for is to get Biden messy. He knows that professional politicians like to sound academic and professional. He knows that they have the facts on their side and they’re looking to score some neat sound bytes. He doesn’t care. He’s trying to turn this into a gladiator match, and he wants to drag his opponent down into the mud with him. He succeeded a few times, too. When Biden called him a liar and the worst president ever, Trump succeeded, even if he lost a few points to get there. When Biden said “Shut up, man,” Trump won again. He made Biden get dirty. He made Biden look like less of a professional, mature alternative. Even if undecided voters don’t actually vote for Trump, if they vote third party or just stay home, that slightly favors Trump more than it favors Biden.
You are over thinking this. Biden’s performance was a remnant of the America that was. His performance was expected of him so he did it. His performance was the past.
Trump used his performance as an opportunity to issue commands to his white nationalist troops. This is the future of America.
Sure. Debates move the needle only a little, and polls show the needle moved for Biden. Good.
But the debates couldnt beat the Comey memo and the Kremlin hits.
Now, we are ready for the kremlin.
I think you brought up another facet/example of what I was trying to explain: attempts by Trump and the right to dampen enthusiasm for his opponent, and for participation in democracy in general. Comey was an example of that: the memo resulted in some voters saying “Screw it - Trump’s a dick, but Hillary’s not worth an hour of my time to go and vote.” The Russian/Wikileaks info dumps were another example of this.
That’s what Trump wants to do with the debates: convince those who might be leaning toward Biden to say “Meh, what’s the difference? They both suck.”
I have seen some of that, sadly.
TroutMan is absolutely correct here and this is a much better execution of opening remarks than I was able to draw up in a similar idea posted in another thread yesterday. But there is more to this than the perfect opening remarks.
First, the candidates have VERY different goals. Biden is trying to articulate well thought out plans that have been contemplated and vetted. Trump is trying to “demonstrate dominance” like an animal. That works for Trumps base, as others have noted they don’t care what the content is – just what the spectacle is.
Second, letting Trump spout his gibberish has proven to be a winning strategy for Biden. He just looks so much more competent than Trump. Trump is trying to win an argument in a bar – Biden is trying to explain a serious matter to people who NEED the information. No contest as to who is more Presidential there.
Third, the Town hall style will play to Biden’s strengths and Trumps weaknesses. Period. My only fear is that the Trump handlers will convince Trump to calm down and take half a tranquilizer before the next debate. Being a jackass plays well in reality TV, not so well in presidential debates. The more Trump acts like a circus sideshow the more voters will turn to Biden (or decide not to vote at all).
Four, Biden needs to participate in the remaining debates and he especially needs to re-emphasis the fact that being president of the United States is an important matter, not something you do between tweeting on the toilet and chatting with FOX News personalities. Of course it should be phrased better than that.
Below I am going to paste in a slightly altered version of the opening remarks I posted as a suggestion in a different thread that I think would allow Biden to dominate the remaining debates by telling the truth and getting under Trump’s skin in a polite and acceptable way. Much of it is cribbed from watching ten-thousand hours of Aaron Sorkin. I do not be seem t be able to use a strike-through tool here so I placed the original verbiage within brackets with an edited version after it. I am not a writer so this needs lots of polish-- but it is good starting place in my estimation.
If there will be opening statements in the next two debates, I think something like this might be effective:
“Good evening moderator(s), thank you for this opportunity.” Then look up into the camera and address the nation. “I want to apologize to the American people who tuned into the last debate because they did not get what America deserves, a thoughtful and thorough investigation of the policies and ideals that will guide each candidate if he is elected to the next presidential term. I hope I have an opportunity to express my ideas, my plans and policies that I believe will lead our nation into a healthier, safer, more prosperous future. There are plenty of things we can do better and I want to address them all. I want to be examined and questioned by the moderators and held to account for my actions and my plans. I would like the moderators to question my opponent and hold him accountable too . . . both on this stage tonight, and for his actions for the last four years.” Then shift back and address the moderator(s) directly again.
“I do not want to participate in a reality TV spectacular tonight. We are here to discuss the administration of the United States government and that is a very serious business. The last presidential debate devolved into [lies and posturing and accusations and insults] an embarrassing mess. I have to admit, I allowed myself to be frustrated by the events and occasionally replied [in kind] to baseless attacks with too much force. The American people deserve better, our nation is facing some serious challenges and I believe we can work together and solve them all. But we can’t solve anything when we are just bullies. So, no matter how frustrated or insulted I am tonight I am going to behave in a dignified manner because I believe to solve SERIOUS problems we have to be dignified and mature and resilient. I believe I can convey more in silence and with dignity than a charging bully disregarding the rules and posturing [like a lesser primate]. If my opponent refuses to live by the rules [(which his taxes prove he is not very good at doing-zing!)], I will simply wait for the moderators to regain control and I believe they will be wise enough to allow me to finish my statement and rebut any distraction that might be introduced. I will set an example by following the rules and expressing thoughts, not letting emotion drive me to anger and hate. Leading this country is a complicated and difficult job; it takes more than bluster to do it well.” Look back at the cameras- “I look forward to lively but civil debate tonight…. I hope we get one.”
Then, every time Trump lapses back into his standard tactics, he can literally shrug, roll his eyes and hold his hands in a TAA DAA pose as if presenting the featured trained monkey. When order is restored he will then have to pause and gather himself to decide if he should finish what he was going to say or address the distraction being lobbed against him – ideally both.
If he makes a version of this speech it:
- Shows he is serious and thoughtful
- Reminds everyone Trump caused all most all the trouble last time.
- Takes responsibility for not following the rules completely last debate.
- Most importantly- puts everything on a higher plane of decorum and civility which will demonstrate he is the adult in the room and pique Trump because he knows he did not come off well in the first debate by now. It might even cause Trump to be even more outrageous because where else is there to go if he feels like he is losing either focus or the debate.
The thing about this is if Biden goes down this route, he will need to live by the rules to a very large degree. Any slip could lead to a “both sides” argument. But that is a slim risk for Biden compared to Trump being portrayed as an uniformed, loud, asshole unprepared for the task at hand (himself in other words).
It also takes responsibility for keeping Trump in line off of Biden’s back and places it on the moderator and eventually on Trump himself. Rather than trying to laugh off the craziness he can just shake his head and feel sorry for the buffoon. Biden remains compassionate and serious – Trump remains… Trump.
So saying: “Donald, this is my time to speak. Perhaps your time could be better used by listening or consulting a better tax attorney” would be out of line I suppose?
As you point out it would benefit the audience, but it would still be very distracting to the opponent and probably the moderator as well.