Should Bush Pardon Martha Stewart

Great Debates
#1

Da Rules:

Political motives only. As a Rovian mechanism, designed for no purpose whatsoever but the election of GeeDubya. Is it a smart move, however cynical. Moralistic arguments are expressly forbidden. (Class warfare arguments are, for the purposes of this debate, classed as “moralistic”.)

If, by some ghastly migration, you were suddenly entombed within Karl Rove, and had to make the right decision, or they’d kill your puppy…

What would you advise? Should GeeDubya pardon Martha Stewart?

My case for: Save 600 jobs. Matha is a victim of “big government” and its vindictive attitude towards the entreprenuer. She has found Jesus, and deserves another chance.

My stance: GeeDubya would be well advised to pardon Martha Stewart, based on one or all of the previous lies, uh, talking points.

#2

No way. He’s already got his political base sewn up with gay marriage. There is absolutely nothing to be gained, politically, by giving her a pardon. MS is not well liked (as a person), she’s a billionaire, and having her appeal trial go forward keeps people talking about her and not him. It sure puts some perspective on just how important the recent campaign add hoo-hah is when Chris Matthews can devote his **entire program ** to MS.

Now, if he can claim that he’s saving her from a lesbian relationship in the pen, that might the only reason I can think of…

Let her fry!!

#3

No, Bush shouldn’t pardon Martha Stewart. I just don’t see how he could play it to benifit his reelection. Besides the lesbian thing ** John Mace ** mentioned. I know of very few people who like her; most of the liberals and conservatives I know think she is getting what she deserves.

#4

I think you would have to have a commission decide if she is a terrorist, as defined by the supreme high council on anti-American stuff.

After that commission makes a rational decision, then whatever Karl says would be what Howdy should Do(ody).

#5

What about Bush’s “Leave no Billionaire behind ?” or is Martha only a multi millionaire ?

Jokes aside I see no reason to pardon her… electorally speaking.

#6

This post must be part of that FOX IQ show: “Unscramble the post!”

What possible benefit could Bush derive, politically speaking, from pardoning Martha Stewart? I guess he’d get Martha Stewart’s vote. He’d lose a million others.

And why would Stewart going to jail cost 600 jobs? The company that bears her name will probably stagger a little but keep on rolling. If necessary they’ll change the name. It’s just cheap-ass kitchen stuff.

#7

Instead of “so, has Bush stopped beating his wife yet?” now we have “So, should Bush beat his wife?”

Answer: of course not.

#8

He won’t pardon her. I don’ t think Martha comes off in any politcal way and it wouldn’t help him if he did. People seem to either like her or hate her. She’s not a billionaire,is she?

#9

No, but she used to be (sort of):

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/people/shows/stewart/profile.html

#10

“…Bush stopped in midstride and looked hard at Hughes. He was silent for a moment. “The economic uncertainty is because of SEC overreach,” he said pointedly…”

The Price of Loyalty, Paul O’Neil.

Clearly an example of same. Ms. Stewart’s ill gotten gains were a mere $50,000. This is chickenfeed, when you’re Martha Stewart. Therefore, we can reasonably assume there was no real malice.

On many occaisions, perfectly honest and sincere fiduciaries have had to endure the embarrassment of unwarranted investigation, hounded by the pathologically persecutive SEC!

Clearly, another example of Big Government snooping unnecessarily, hampering the job-creating energy of an entrepeneur, crippling a natural genius of commerce. Ayn Rand wept.

Ms. Stewart is but an innocent, led astray like a lamb, rolled over in the clover. And its not like it was real money, it was stock market money. I mean, it’s not like she stole it - it just wasn’t hers. Temporarily. She had every reason to believe that it would be hers, soon enough.

She overdrew 50K on the bank of probability. That’s what entrepeneurs do!

All right, all right,…you wanna be a hard ass. Demand restitution, cost plus 10%.

NASCAR Moms instinctively realize that Ms. Stewart is no smarter than they. It could happen to them, they can relate.

Gays appreciate Martha Stewart. It’ll take some of the sting out of the whole gay marriage amendment thing.

Such a move might change the voting habits of the Key West gay community. Key West Florida, mind you. Might affect 10,000 votes. Assuming the Jews for Buchanan don’t endorse Nader.

Gain: 51% Loss 49%

Not convinced yet? If Martha Stewart goes to prison there is a one in a thousand chance it will be a reality TV show. Is it worth the risk?

I rest my case.

#11

Would it be good for his political standing? No.

Is it the right thing to do? IMHO, yes. If it were my decision, she’d do one day in jail, then she’d walk.

#12

If the President of the United States pardoned every felon who wasn’t too malicious, it’s all he’d ever do.

#13

It could only happen to them if they willfully broke the law, in which case any sane person would expect to be punished and not pardoned by the president.

I highly doubt that homosexuals like Stewart any more than heterosexuals. You seem to be falling for the stereotype of gay = fashion-conscious. Pardoning Stewart based on a stereotype of a minority group will not motivate said minority group in Bush’s favor.

And even if we assume for a second that all gay people love Stewart, such a pardon would be so overwhelmingly overshadowed by an Amendment to define marriage that it wouldn’t even be worth considering.

I sincerely doubt that there is any chance of that happening. And if, by some hell-freezing-over turn of events it does happen, I’ll just not watch it. Problem solved.

#14

Pardon? Nah. She’s guilty, and deserves the standard punishment for her offense.

Of course, in THIS case, the standard ounishment SHOULD have been a hefty fine. If the defendant had been someone who WASN’T so famous, there’s not a chance in Hell that this case would have gone to trial.

I think what we have here is a bunch of prosecutors who are bored with their usual duties (who can blame them? investigating and prosecuting financial crimes is pretty tedious and unrewarding stuff), and looking for a chance to get some publicity, as well as a boost for their stalled careers. Hey, you think ANY of these guys dreamed of investigating piddling crimes like this when they were at Harvard Law School? Luckily for them, a very unpopular celebrity fell into their laps. NO WAY were they going to give her the usual plea-bargain and fine treatment they’d have automatically offered to any other defendant. A Martha Stewart trial gives a bunch of faceless lawyers a moment in the spotlight, and something to put in their fliers when they run for office next year (“Joe Schmeaux for Attorney General: He Put Martha Stewart Behind Bars”).

As I said, Martha is undoubtedly guilty, and I won’t shed any tears for her. But it’s pretty obvious to me that, in the Stewart case, as in the Leona Helmsley case, a rich woman is likely to go to jail NOT because her crimes merit it, but because a wide sector of the public believes (rightly or wrongly) “that rich bitch thinks she’s better than me.”

#15

That may be so, but lack of malice isn’t the reason I’d pardon her.

As other folks have pointed out, what’s so troubling about this case is that it seems MS is being targeted for being a “rich bitch.” I don’t care for Martha Stewart, but this whole thing is shameful IMHO. I was just at the federal courthouse in Manhattan this morning, and you should see what a freaking circus Foley Square has turned into.

#16

She’s going to do maybe a year in a minimum-security jail and then return to a multimedia empire and still be a multi-multi-millionaire or billionare. Everybody who ‘accidentially’ breaks the law and then lies about it should be so fucking lucky. :rolleyes:

You know that the guy who ran the company (and also illegally dumped his shares) is serving a seven-year jail sentence and Martha’s broker also got sentenced today, right? I’m sure plenty of people have gotten away with this, but she DID break the law, so I fail to see how she’s being unfairly targeted.

#17

No pardon. Martha is but a sacrificial red herring, and must be sacrificed.

Throwing Martha to the wolves lets Bush show that he’s tough on corporate crooks :rolleyes: without jepoardizing his big-name big-money crim… er, donprs, like “Kenny Boy” Lay.

#18

I admit I’m not an expert on white collar criminal law, but my instinct is that if joe-stocktrader had done what she had done, he’d have gotten a fine and a slap on the wrist.

#19

For obstruction of justice? I’m not an expert on this either, but I really doubt it.

#20

Yes.

Suit yourself. Today or tomorrow I’ll ask a family member of mine who is a former assistant U.S. attorney and see what he says.