Should Confederate Flags be banned from NASCAR events?

Great Debates
1

Bubba Wallace, the only black driver currently in NASCAR, is calling for the Confederate Flag to be banned from all races. There are unconfirmed reports that NASCAR is actually discussing it.

As NASCAR is not the government this is clearly not a First Amendment issue. However, if you go to the NASCAR forums and Facebook groups, people are losing their minds over the possibility that they will no longer be permitted to celebrate their Southern Heritage. So, should NASCAR ban the flags or should people be permitted to display their ignorance?

Even if the flags are banned they should take comfort in being able to see the last flag of the Confederate Army waved to the drivers on the last lap of each race.

2

That’s terrific. Hopefully NASCAR follows through. It’s long, long overdue.

3

OP, +1 to your last sentence!

I was ignorant about that flag in the 1970s and 80s, when Dukes of Hazzard was on. The history of that flag was essentially hidden from us Northerners back then.

Since then, I’ve learned that it was added to a few southern state flags specifically to push back against civil rights laws. I learned this in the last 10 or 15 years.

So, maybe some people are displaying that flag because their still ignorant, but my guess is that most of them are racists.

It should be banned. The Nazi flag is banned in Germany, and the Nazis weren’t even traitors to their nation. (Note, I’m not saying the Confederate flag should be banned in the US, but NASCAR, as a private company presumably trying to be inclusive, should ban it).

4

You won’t see me complaining. I’m sympathetic to those who want to preserve symbols of the Confederacy as reminders of history, not those who appropriate them as symbols of pride. There’s no need to fly that flag in a sporting event.

~Max

5

It is long overdue. Time for that flag to be gone.

6

I am a Yankee. I live so far north, I’m practically in Canada.

I absolutely don’t understand the proliferation IN THIS DAY AND AGE of the Confederate Battle Flag - I know of two of them in my neighborhood. One is on an inside wall of their garage - you see it if the door is left open; the other is hanging on their front door, right next to another flag that says “United we stand” (mixed messages much?). I don’t think there’s been an influx of southerners moving into Illinois, so I’m discounting the possibility of “Southern Pride” or “Southern Heritage”.

If you are flying the Confederate Battle Flag (note - what we’re talking about here was NOT the national flag of the Confederacy, which was called the “Stars And Bars”), I see several options here (in chronological order):

  1. You believe in the Confederate States of America, and are therefore a traitor to the United States, and should be hung. (is there any other country in the world where the flag of an unsuccessful revolution can be legally flown?)

  2. You long for the days of Reconstruction and the first incarnation of the KKK. You are a racist asshole.

  3. You long for the resurrection of the KKK in the early 1900s. You are, again, a racist asshole.

  4. You long for a simpler time like the 1950s, where we had laws to keep them darkies in their place. This is getting repetitive.

  5. You are a big fan of the show Dukes of Hazard (late 70s / early 80s). Valid, but a very narrow time here. This just makes you stupid.

  6. Most recently, the Confederate Battle Flag is being used by the neo-Nazis in Europe (esp. Germany) where flying a swastika on a flag is illegal. Back to racist asshole.

So, I see a Confederate Flag flown up here, and I immediately think “Racist Asshole”. Don’t understand why they want to advertise it. Even in the South, you have to be INTENTIONALLY OBTUSE to not know that it has been used as a racist symbol for pretty much ALL of it’s life, and that its use is uncomfortable for a large portion of the nation. I simply don’t understand why it is still flown, unless,…

7

I vote there is no official use of the Confederate flags in any of these events, and individuals sporting these flags should be beaten with a pig bladder on a stick. Seriously, what is wrong with these people?

8

Why is this only a NASCAR issue? Why not ban the flag of a literal rebel movement everywhere in the US? Or is it all right if people started waving the flag of Cuba or the former Soviet Union?

9

In the spirit of new GD rules, perhaps these questions would be better asked in dedicated threads.

~Max

10

The government cant ban any flag because of free speech. They cant ban the burning of the US flag because of free speech. Im not a NASCAR fan but isnt the flag issue that the confederate flag is displayed by fans rather than race organizers?

11

Freedom of speech. When I see you flying a Confederate flag, I think you’re a racist asshole (see my screed above). However, I will fight for your right to fly that flag to prove that you’re a racist asshole, because it’s absolutely a 1st Amendment right.

12

Those things are legal. So is waving the CSA flag. It should not be “illegals” but it should be barred.
But companies, events, parks, etc can all ban the CSA flag and any of those also .

If you have the actual car from the show- The General Lee, I dont want to ban that.

If you are doing Civil war recreations- CSA flag is OK, but why not the Stars and bars, you dont need the Confederate battle flag.

On the graves of the honored dead.

Note that the “rebel flag”, “Dixie flag”, “the Confederate battle flag”, and “Southern cross” was NEVER the offical flags of the CSA, altho it figured on the last two of the three flags (first was “stars & bars”)

Modern display of the Confederate battle flag - Wikipedia)

*In their study of Confederate symbols in the contemporary Southern United States, the Southern political scientists James Michael Martinez, William Donald Richardson, and Ron McNinch-Su wrote:

The battle flag was never adopted by the Confederate Congress, never flew over any state capitols during the Confederacy, and was never officially used by Confederate veterans’ groups. The flag probably would have been relegated to Civil War museums if it had not been resurrected by the resurgent KKK and used by Southern Dixiecrats during the 1948 presidential election.[38]

Southern historian Gordon Rhea further wrote in 2011 that:

It is no accident that Confederate symbols have been the mainstay of white supremacist organizations, from the Ku Klux Klan to the skinheads. They did not appropriate the Confederate battle flag simply because it was pretty. They picked it because it was the flag of a nation dedicated to their ideals: ‘that the negro is not equal to the white man’. The Confederate flag, we are told, represents heritage, not hate. But why should we celebrate a heritage grounded in hate, a heritage whose self-avowed reason for existence was the exploitation and debasement of a sizeable segment of its population?[39]*

The state Flag of Mississippi, and the the city flag of Trenton, Georgia both show this racist symbol clearly. Other southern flags somewhat evoke it.

13

NASCAR itself should not fly the flag. But I think should still allow racist assholes to fly it. As long as they display the flag wavers’ name, addy, phone number on TV for all to see.

14

Free speech and all that.

NASCAR should ban it though. It is literally a flag of traitors to the US.

Although I would be willing to bet if it is banned enough they will generate a new flag for themselves and display that.

15

There are other possible reasons.

  1. You don’t care about the Confederacy but want to show you’re a “rebel”, and aren’t paying attention to how the flag is seen by others.

  2. You identify strongly as “Southern” and think the flag is an immutable part of your heritage.

Going back to #5, “This just makes you stupid.”

NASCAR should be free to ban Confederate flags at its events. People who want to fly Confederate flags on their property including vehicle decals should be free to do so, while I am free to think they are jerks and not patronize businesses that are displaying the flag.

16

For a long time the flag was the symbol of being a “rebel”. That is someone who rebels against authority.

Many rock groups like Lynard Skynard used it.

17

Yeah. We know. Shit changes though.

18
  1. You don’t care about the Confederacy or “Southern pride” in any way, but you just like annoying liberals and don’t even care that it involves cosplaying as a racist asshole.
19

Maybe for starters …
Eureka flag
Basque flag (Ikurriña)

20

We still see the flag of the USSR during demonstrations and the Supreme Soviet failed in a 1993 bid to topple Yeltsin.