I think whether the “you need to see a psychiatrist” commment makes sense depends on the tone you read into it.
I don’t think it’s fair to say there’s something actually wrong with me for thinking like this. In fact, the dilemma seems very common, as various posts here also prove.
OTOH if he meant, as the above posts suggests, that I might want to talk to a professional to get explore my thoughts and find out what it is I really want, well, that’s a different thing and not a nonsensical suggestion at all. Having said that, I feel I’m well able to figure this out for myself with the help of friends, family and, well, you guys.
Unless you’re talking about someone whose retirement plan is “walk out into a snowstorm and die,” I’m pretty sure most people see retirement the same way I do: it’s either something you do if you ever no longer want or need to work, or it’s something you do if you are ever no longer capable of working. Even if the first option doesn’t appeal to you, there’s still the risk that the second will be forced upon you.
Agreed. I met a guy in his 50s a few weeks ago that came into the library looking for the classifieds to rent an apartment.
All that shit is online now and he’s been a wandering drifter all his life so he has no idea how to use a computer. So between his constant swearing that “The world shouldn’t make him use computers” and his bafflement that 20 year old guys don’t want to be roomies with a 50 year retail clerk, I don’t know whether I should pity him or laugh my ass off.
He woke up a few weeks ago and realized the world left him by and now he’s scared shitless. But because of his wandering ways, he has no idea how to act around people, and just acts like a jerk all the time.
I spent my 20s working in jobs that, while not exactly McJobs, were less than what I was capable of doing because I wanted the freedom to pretty much come and go as I pleased. In my 30s I settled down, bought an apartment and began studying to become a lawyer. I’m now bored shitless with my life and wish I could go back to my old nomadic ways but I feel trapped.
Nobody can say what will happen in your case but my advice is not to settle down just because you feel you should. If you think you’d be happy as a 40-year-old ESL teacher then do it. Not everybody is cut out for what modern western culture defines as “adulthood”.
And whatever you decide to do, just remember there’s always the possibility your feelings about it may change in the future and make sure to leave yourself an escape route.
There’s a shitload of things you can do with life in-between what you’re doing now and working at Initech from 9 to 5. You could do something more intellectually stimulating that allows you to keep your lifestyle. I think it’s a little easier if you’re not particularly driven by filthy lucre. I mean, off the top of my head I can think of three or four jobs: state department employee, management consultant, freelance writer.
I have to say that nearly every job that either a) pays well (consulting) or b) seems really cool (international development, diplomatic corps, freelance photographer), generally requires ambition and effort because a shitload of people want either cool and “fun” jobs or jobs that pay a lot of money. It’s not like you can wake up one day and be like “oh cool, I’m just going to be a freelance travel writer now because it seems like it would be more fun than teaching ESL” and get it going in 5 minutes unless your last name ends with Gates or similar. Nearly every person I know who has one of those jobs worked really hard to get it.
It’s part of it. I adore Italy, but the way the country is “organised” can make it a very frustrating place to live. The Netherlands wins hands in down in terms of career prospects, quality of living etc. But of course that’s not all there is to it. Italy will also give you heart-breaking beauty, a sunny climate and fantastic food. It’s hard to give that up.
Hey Pooka, there was a time when I could have written a very similar OP, I have kinda been where you are in life.
For me this reflects something universal and important about human nature. It’s easy to criticize that which you don’t understand, and that disdaining the choices of others is, for some, one way of feeling good about their own choices. The truth is that it takes all kinds of people to make a world. There will always be those who value collecting experiences over collecting things. Those who would lie awake at night, if they had not a home and address, while others would be lying awake feeling chained to careers and commitments. Different strokes for different folks. For myself I just could not understand those willing to put off seeing the world until retirement age. That would never do for me. I wanted to roam while I was still young enough to scale a volcano or tolerate an all third class train ride. I was baffled at how anyone was willing to work 50 wks of the year to get 2 wks off, that was just not a bargain I was willing to make when I was young. Some people chafe against the yoke of car payments, credit card debt, mortgages, 9-5. That the majority willingly put on the yoke, changes nothing. I was a square peg and could not, no matter how I tried, get motivated by what seemed to so strongly motivate my peers, or cram myself into that round hole.
My spouse and I spent upward of 15 years traveling, for months at a stretch, through Asia, India, and South America. We never worked in any of those countries, choosing to return home, work, save then hit the road again. We did so until we were well into my forties and his fifties. Like you, we were often told, by people with successful careers, driving BMW’s, who earned triple what we did, that they envied us our lifestyle. Over time, our peers came to view us as poster children for never growing up, no house, no kids, no car, no mortgage, no investments. They comforted themselves by judging us to be lacking the maturity to commit to anything or to go the distance. To be honest, we sort of saw ourselves in similar terms.
But let’s be real, you don’t get to take a ten month holiday in some exotic locale without discipline. Learning to save money takes discipline and is a life skill that will serve you well all of your life. Spreading the $12,000 over those 10 months takes some serious money management skills, but, of course, no one sees that side of it. Learning to live in a cash economy, on a fixed amount isn’t, in reality, as easy as just buying whatever you want. Traveling makes you open and adaptable, you learn life skills that are easily overlooked but that will, I promise you, serve you very well in the future.
Then our last surviving parent suffered a devastating stroke, that left them entirely bedridden and in need of 24 hr care. And our world changed, BAMG, just like that. Suddenly we found ourselves with a life we’d never imagined for ourselves. Hubby became the only wage earner, I because a housefrau/caregiver, we had a dog, a mortgage, lawns to mow, car insurance, etc, etc. Yeah, I’m not going to lie, it was a super challenging change of lifestyle. The highly structured nature of it was a huge struggle for both of us. But we made it work, went with the flow, learned on the fly, skills we’d honed on trips all over the globe.
Suddenly our peer group saw us with new eyes. They were visibly astounded that we did, in fact, possess both the ability and maturity to commit and go the distance. It was a challenge that many, when they’d faced it, proved beyond their reach and they went another way. Just like that we were the object of much admiration, getting some serious props from good people who saw a big change in us. But there was no big change in us, we were exactly the same. Motivation is everything. Taking on all this just to keep up to the pack never interested us.
It’s true, of course that our house is not so nearly close to being paid off as those of our peer group. That doesn’t bother us. And we haven’t taken any long distance trips since we got the house (our caregiving ended, after 6 years, about 2+ years ago), but part of that is we have already reached many of the things that drew us so magnetically.
The balance between freedom and security is delicate in every life, truth be told. Everyone has to find their own pace and balance, like climbing a mountain. It’s also true that retirement for my generation is going to look substantially different from my grandparents. People live longer, want to follow their interests, are more active in their retirement than grandpa was. And it all costs money. It may well be that, the retirement we’ve seen in generations past, will completely disappear but for the exceptionally successful. More and more people are recognizing that retirement may mean continuing to work, part time, consulting, etc.
Having shared this much with you, here is the advice I wish I’d been given much earlier in my life. Save some money, return to your homeland and buy a small house/condo. Do not overreach, something you can rent out, low maintenance, etc. Take the profits of renting (everything over the mortgage) and bank it for 10 months. This is the fund that will cover whatever could crop up or need repair while you’re off wandering. I understand you might have to do a year in your homeland to accomplish this, but it will pay you rich rewards if you can manage it. The property will appreciate in value with the passage of time, the tenant will pay the mortgage building equity for you. Additionally, should your life on the road go totally pearshaped you have a home you can move back to, (60 days to put out the tenant where I am). If you finally decide to marry that Greek Adonis and move to Santorini you can sell it and cash out, start up money for your new island home! If you can manage this you won’t have to worry so much about security for your future. In the end we are benefiting from this exact thing, our home will be our security for our future. We will very likely rent it out and go off traveling for a year, some time in the future. If we’d started at your age, we’d be sitting a little prettier right now. As a young woman perhaps you have family that wants help with things like down payments, let them, it’s going to be very reassuring for them to know you have taken steps towards securing your future.
If we lost everything we owned, tomorrow, and ended up spending our retirement living in a tent, we would still have no regrets, in truth. A more prestigious car, or career, less outstanding mortgage could never, ever, in a million years be more rewarding than to see the sunrise over Machu Picchu (having walked five days through the wilds of Peru on the Inca Trail), or watching the sunset in Bali from my thatched bungalow hammock, ancient temples, friends from all over the world,( I could go on in this vein for days!) etc, etc.
Take it from someone who has it all, with a little planning you can too.
Not to discount your personal experience, of course, but if you couldn’t rent things out for more than the mortgage there would be no such thing as ‘income property’, and very few rental houses, etc.
This put quite a big smile on my face, thanks. When I first began traveling I returned so full of my experience I shared it with anyone who would listen and some who didn’t. I was filled with passion and possessed pretty good communication skills. I hit the community like a infectious disease. I quickly infected anyone that got near me. I know I am personally responsible for setting at least a dozen other people onto a travelers path. Not that any of them were as struck as I, they all returned to pursue more average lives following their adventures. But now, many years later, whenever I bump into one, they never fail to thank me for infecting them, encouraging them, empowering them to think differently, take that scary step and leave all they knew behind. Today their houses are almost paid off, their kids almost grown, 2 cars in the drive, etc. But they give me a big smile and hug and thank me heartily for prompting them to do something they mightn’t have otherwise. To a one they tell me they are so glad they did it when they were young.
Pookah, I’m of the rambling persuasion too. Aged 24, I left home in 1992 “for three months” and didn’t come back for 13 years. When I was 37 I made the same decision as you are making now - I’d been an expat for too long, and had built up no financial equity in my life. I wanted to give home another go. So after one year of backpacking the world again, I went back to England. Bought a house with my then-wife. Got a job with a generous pension scheme. My career went through the roof. Nearly tripled my starting salary in two years. Tried to put down roots.
Well, it’s nearly five years on and I am bored out of my fucking tiny mind. I now have no SO, and we never had any kids, and I’m ready to go again. So I am going to. I’ve decided to divest myself of possessions, sell the house, and fuck off again, and damn the consequences. Maybe I’ll write a best-seller or something and live off that when I get really old. Or maybe I’ll die as the chicken bus I’m in falls off a cliff in some third world nation.
My theory is that people like me, and maybe you, have broken their ability to be content in one place. Maybe it’s innate, or maybe it’s just that at a formative time in our lives we got bitten. You could see it as an affliction, or maybe a bonus: it’s a privilege that we in our age have, to experience the vastness of the globe and the diverse peoples within it - in centuries past, only the very rich could do it. We only have one life to live, and we only have one planet, and it’s a shame to waste that opportunity.
But you’ll never know that you can settle back unless you try. I tried and failed, but maybe you’ll be more successful. So, what I suggest is, go home by all means. Diversify your career when you do it. Do some courses and get good at something businesslike or specialised, but with transferable skills that you could maybe use in other parts of the world (project managers are in demand everywhere, for example). Make some kind of investment while you’re doing it.
But don’t think that because of this sensible decision, you are pinned down. You’re not: you can still go off and do something that fulfills you, somewhere interesting, at any age. I did it aged 24, aged 28, aged 30, aged 37, and when I do it again I’ll be 43. And I’ll probably do it again when I’m in my 50s.
Most profitable income properties rely on small mortgage payments - either via longevity of ownership, or through having a substantial deposit at the time of purchase. If you are doing this short term and don’t have a substantial proportion of the purchase price of the property, then this probably isn’t an option. And of course given the current state of the property and credit markets worldwide, deposit size is even more of an issue (one of the reasons it actually makes financial sense for me to offload my house, which I bought near the peak of the market).
I have infected three or four too. I’m not sure if it’s a gift or an affliction we’re giving them, though.
I’m surprised by how many posters here see the only alternative to being a rootless vagabond is to be a cubicle drone. I’ve never in my life worked in a cubicle. I haven’t always loved my job, but the one time I had a job I hated I quit it post haste. Right now I absolutely love my job. I love the challenges and rewards, the people I work with, the company I work for. I know I may be unusual in this regard; threads discussing job satisfaction and work are filled with unhappy people doing things they don’t care about, but honestly, there are a lot of ways to make a living.
I should have qualified, what I said a little more, perhaps. You do have to think small, and choose wisely, of course. We bought our 1000 square foot home, for 100K, with 15k down, and could have rented it out, for more than the mortgage, the next day. Every market is different, of course, but choosing wisely, and thinking small will go a long way. It’s out there, you just have to look. And remember you’re not looking for a home you want, to raise a family in or spend your life in, you’re looking for something small, low maintenance, in a good location with good rental prospects situation wise. And, of course, your mileage may vary! It’s something to consider, anyway.
That’s what you took away from that whole post, eh?
My husband’s company is an international construction management company - they have branches across Canada and the US, Nassau and Hawaii. They do projects, so a career with them could mean working your way across two countries and the Bahamas. As noted earlier, stable career does not have to mean cubicle drone or stuck in one location forever - that’s just one example of how to make a very good living without putting down forever roots.
Good points otherwise.
