A few years back, three, four or so, a female friend explained to me how selfish I am for paying all the time. Sounds odd until you hear her logic. Her words to me:
“You know that good feeling you get when you do something nice for someone, like buying dinner? Well, the rest of us sometimes want to experience that too.”
Since then, when a woman wants to pay for me, I smile and give her a genuine thank you.
The reason I asked is remembering that woman I dated back in the 1980s. Here I had bought into all the feminist principles. I thought of us as living in a brave new feminist world where all the old regulations about male-female interactions were tossed out in favor of total equality. I imagined we shared this understanding.
Then she broke up with me because she thought the man should always pay.
I must have missed something.
This just goes to show that you can’t take anything for granted. I believe human beings should show more understanding for one another, cut each other some slack, considering the guidelines are in flux and you don’t know in advance what an individual believes nowadays. To get all upset because a man is a male chauvinist pig if he pays, or cheap and uncaring if he doesn’t pay, is maybe a little unfair if the man really wanted to do the right thing but didn’t know in advance what she believed was right.
DanielWithrow, your idea rocks. 
**
My conversation would go more like this:
I start to pick up the check
Date: Let me pay this time.
Me: Are you sure? I don’t mind paying.
Date: I’m sure.
Me: Shrug Ok.
**
I wouldn’t mind her doing the chores if she got pleasure out of it. If she felt it was her place and derived no pleasure…well that would be different. Yes, I think if one person in a couple insisting on something makes the other uncomfortable the one insisting should not insist. I as much as said so when I said previously that if a women was actually uncomfortable with me paying she could pay as much as she wanted.
**
If a person really feels that they want to do something so much that it bothers them that they can’t they should be able to do it. I personally just consider limited options as encouragement to be more creative in my ideas.
If a woman starts playing head games with me I consider it a sign to run very far very fast. Life with a person like that would be hell.
Since gender issues (as such) are not a factor, perhaps some gay-boy protocol (at least as I practice it) might prove instructive.
I would also like to applaud DanielWithrow’s plan, with the understanding that the gender roles could be reversed (or absent).
As Miss Manners says,
"Dear Miss Manners: As a businessman, how do I allow a businesswoman to pay for my lunch?
“Gentle Reader: With credit card or cash, as she prefers.”
It seems to me that early in a relationship there aren’t a whole, eholoe lot of ways to be nice: paying is a big one. So I don’t like to see this co-opted by any one person.
Ending with “thank you” would be even better.
I don’t think women fit any sterotype on this. Some women like to pay & some like the guy
to pay. I always ask beforehand, whoever does the inviting until the rules are set. Some women
just can’t afford to pay-they have children, for example & might have to pay for the babysitter.
Who should pay for the babysitter?
It might, but only because it would be so incredibly unlikely. Besides, there’s a difference between a one-time taking over of someone’s chores and the taking over of them indefinitely, which is what I think you are implying. (I may be wrong on that; if so, please correct me.)
Let me put it this way - if a woman I was dating said, “Don’t worry, I’ll do laundry this time,” I’d ask her if she was sure she wanted to. If she said yes, then I’d let her and not worry about it at all. If she always said she wanted to do laundry, and the dishes, and mowing the lawn, etc., then I’d be worried. After all, it would be very unusual for anyone to truly enjoy doing all those things all the time, and so I’d suspect that she didn’t really enjoy doing it.
Similarly, I could see how a woman might be uneasy if I always paid, no matter what, and wouldn’t listen to her if she said she wanted to pay. But like I said, I don’t think it’s a big deal so I wouldn’t ever do that.
I agree, so long as you don’t consider a simple, “Are you sure? I don’t mind paying” to be an argument.
If a woman offered to pay for me I’d be flattered. I would, of course, ask her if she was sure and let her know that I didn’t mind paying my share (or the entire thing, if she was short on cash). If she said she was sure, I’d leave it at that and expect to probably pick up the tab next time.
In a real life situation that occurred on my first real date ever (two weeks ago), the bill came, and I took it. I saw the girl I was with start reaching for money and I said, “Don’t worry. I’ll pay for dinner. You bought the tickets.” (She had purchased tickets for the show we were going to after dinner: Riverdance. It’s really a good show. But I digress. ) She said, “Ok” and that was that. We spent maybe five seconds total on the subject.
I think that a situation where a man is paying for 100% of all dates in a relationship of a signifigant duration is pretty comprable to a woman taking over all household chores for that same duration.
Your descriptions seem quite reasonable to me: it is men who will keep argueing and argueing over how they will pay–thus making it a big deal–or who brag that they always pay, that bug me (that isn’t happening here, but I have heard it in RL, and I believe here on this board).
See- balance, sharing, good things!
(PS-Matt, I was going to query as to how these matters are handled in gay courtship. Thanks for adding that).
I’m obviously a throwback to an earlier time 
When DH and I were dating (mid-eighties) he always paid for our for our meals/entertainment. I remember early in our relationship, making a bet with him about something that I knew I’d win so that I could take him out to dinner (and pick up the check). Southern bred, traditional man that he was (and remains) he still picked up the check!
I never felt obligated or indebted to him because he paid. Now, we just throw our pennies into the community pot and if there are enough left over, we go out. Who pulls the money out of their wallet is irrelevant 
My 20 year old daughter has been in the dating world for a few years and she’s just shared that she’s never had a young man accept her offer to pay for their meal or entertainment, even when she initiated the date. Is this just a southern thing?
On a first date, if I’m not interested in a second date, I’ll suggest splitting the check. If he insists, I’m not going to argue.
On a first date, If I’d like there to be a second date, I’ll suggest splitting, but if he insists, I’ll say “Thanks - I’ll get the next one.”
In an established relationship, I like to alternate. But since I’m currently not working due to a recent lay-off, when he reaches for the check, I generally say “Thank you for dinner.”
Sounds like folks ahve their heads pretty firmly on their shoulders about this one.
Matt, I agree that the gender roles could be reversed or absent, of course. It is worth noting, though, that there’s a tradition here of men paying on het dates that complicates things.
The fact that a woman might believe the man should always pay may not be an automatic “Get the hell out of here!” for some men. But it’s something that’s pretty difficult to ask about, so a little bit of dancing around the subject is sometimes necessary.
I think that for women, if they initiate the offer to pay, things might go a little differently. Especially if the man believes he should always pay – which, again, may not be an automatic “GtHOoH!” for the woman. In that case, I’m not sure how the conversation would best go.
Woman: picks up the check.
Man: I’ve got it!
Woman: How about you get me dinner next time?
Man: No, really, I’ll get it!
Woman: ??? The only polite response I can think of from here is, “okay, thanks.” Which may stick the woman in a place she doesn’t want to be in.
Hmm.
Daniel
Or, depending on how the rest of the evening went beforehand, it may mean the man has no intention of making this a repeat performance and that this will be the one and only din din with this particular lady and he wants no obligations to future dinners.
1.Asker always pays.
2.Askee should offer something (tip, gas money, drink tab, whatever) but should not be expected to.
3.Asker did have the option of saying “go Dutch treat” up front.
4.Sex has nothing to do with it. And I mean that in the several senses that could be taken.
pg. 33,
The Tennessee Hippie’s Guide to Etiquette
It depends.
Whoever asks the other on a date should pay?
Maybe.
IMHO,
On first dates, it shoudl always be dutch treat.
Each should pay for themselves.
That way, there is no expectations or obligations.
Much easier.
Another great thing about being gay. The problem seldom arises.
Bob
**
Well, flowers are nice. I personally have always thought that I would enjoy an occasional bouquet myself.
Of course, of course. That wasn’t an exact transcript or anything. It was merely a hypothetical conversation that was, in part, designed to empathize that if a woman truly wanted to pay I would have no problem with it.
I just think that whoever does the asking should at least be prepared for, if not insistent on, paying for the date. I’m a woman, but in general, I’m as likely to be the asker as I am to be the askee.
And even when I am asked out, I am always prepared to pay for my share. And I do the reaching for the wallet thing, too, no matter what.
When someone pays for me, I feel like a moocher or something. Maybe it’s generational (I’m 32), although I have a number of same-age peers who think I’m crazy for feeling this way.
The only exception was when I dated a guy who was extremely well off, insisted on paying, and was very uncomfortable the few times I paid for dinner. Romantic? Sure, I guess. But, as Annie mentioned, this dude turned out to be a hyperconservative jerk. In hindsight, I think my keeping sanity was worth the price of a few dinners. I think that experience really affected my thinking.
I’ll be honest. I’m male, and I generally do not like to be paid for, unless its a relationship that is past the first few dates stage. If I ask a woman out, I will generally pay. I have not yet met a woman who insisted on paying. They may make a polite offer, but after a “That’s OK, I got it” there’s never any further insistence on the bill.
If a woman asks me out, then I’ll split the tab. If she insists on paying, then OK. I don’t like it - yes, it stems from a bit of an old-fashioned masculinity issue, who cares? But I won’t make an issue of it.
Yes there’s a double standard there, but so far this has worked for me, so I’ll stick with it.
As the relationship progresses, the bills are split or one person covers for another.