A friend of mine who is separated and dating ran this by me. I was shocked and wanted to get a reality check. This is what she said regarding who pays for a dinner out on a date.
He offers to pay. This means you are entering into a silent negotation that involves a sexual payoff or expectations thereof. If you allow him to pay for the meal, you are encouraging that kind of expectation. Are you happy with that idea? Is that what you want to foster? Expectations of payback on your back, so to speak.
He discusses splitting the check. This means he is a cheap guy and after all, who wants to date a cheap guy? If he’s cheap on the first date, he’ll only get worse from there and who wants a guy who won’t buy you things?
He is happy for you to pay. Beyond cheap, lose his phone number, don’t consider him.
First of all, I find this mindset to be maddeningly crass and narrow. Is dating just commerce? Her allegation is that basically it is and caveat emptor. While I find this approach to be horrifically cruel and calculating, one DOES judge others by how they handle money matters and that first impression lasts forever. No getting around that IMHO.
So, Doper Wimmin who have been in this situation, what is your take on her take? Is this accurate for a larger portion of the population? In what situations would you find it completely acceptable to split the bill or pick it up and more to the point- how much do you care about this kind of thing? Do you use it as a yardstick by which to measure his overall personality?
Have you been on a first date where the money portion of the evening made a lasting impression or in fact steered the course of the relationship? ( Either happily or off the nearest cliff )
Wow. Your friend must be hella fun at parties. *Why * is she dating, if she has such contempt for the whole process?
Buying me dinner is not a deposit on later nookie. There will be nookie if I feel like it. If I do not, then there won’t. I am the sole trustee and custodian of the nookie, and I do not take bribes.
Could be he’s cheap. Could be he’s broke. Could be this is just how he’s used to doing it. Could be that he’s determining her interest by her willingness to spend, just like she’s determining his. If you’re interested in why, then try to find out. If you’re just pissed off that you have to buy you’re own dinner, then you should be asking yourself whether you’re there for his company, or for a free dinner.
Pretty much ditto 2.
IMO, as a general guideline, whoever asks, pays. There are of course myriad exceptions to this rule, and it becomes much more flexible once you’re out of the “dating” stage and into an actual relationship, but grown people who ostensibly like, or are at least attracted to each other, should be able to work it out with a minimum of angst.
That said, I do remember that the worst date I ever had involved a long walk on a cold day, conversation that could only be described as painfully awkward, and lunch at a sandwich place, where at the register, he turned to me and said “Can you get this? I only have a $5.” Dude, I don’t expect to be wined and dined (well, not all the time, anyway), but if it’s your idea to stop for lunch, you should have enough cash on you to buy at least *your own * turkey sandwich, if not mine. We are not teenagers.
Whoever asked pays, or at least offers to pay. If I were asked out and then expected to pick up all or some of the tab, yeah, that would be tacky and he’d have to be an spectacular date otherwise for me not to think poorly of him. Same as I’d expect to pay if I asked him.
My first date with my partner was a late night movie and dinner, late since we worked opposite schedules. Movies first, he paid for the tickets but then I hit the snack stand and paid for those, then he paid for drinks and a burger afterward. Seemed fair and we never even discussed it, no awkward moments.
Traditionally, the man pays. I’m of an age and a generation of feminism that doesn’t take that as graven in stone – generally, on a first date that’s an actual date (see below for another scenario), the man has issued the invitation and pays for dinner, and I’ll pay for the movie. After that, it’s more or less even, though whoever is the one who wants to Go Do X (concert, etc.) should acquire and pay for the tickets.
For a first IRL meeting of someone you’ve been dealing with online, it’s less clear – generally that’s for coffee, so less of a big deal (esp. if you arrive at different times and each get your own). If we both eat, I’ll go for my wallet but not argue about it if he waves me off. If I eat and he doesn’t (this has happened a couple of times when I’m coming directly from work but his schedule is different), I will pay the whole bill, even if he offers to kick in or pick it up – which has never led to an argument.
As far as negotiating towards sex – that’s happening regardless of who’s paying. That’s why you’re dating. (Well, that’s why I’m dating, anyway.) I don’t see a guy picking up a check as being a down payment on my virtue.
So I’m guessing she’s not going out on many second dates? Seriously, what scenario would work for her?
Anyway, on a first date, whoever asked, pays. Doesn’t mean she has to put out. As twickster says, negotiation about sex is going on regardless of who pays. As for how many dates before sex . . . that’s a whole other thread…
I never go out to eat without enough money to cover myself, in case of need. That being said, I do think it’s sweet for a guy to pay on the first date, and I do not consider that such payment means it’s now time for me to put out. On subsequent dates, should there be any, it’s easy enough to discuss who is paying – or if both are – beforehand.
I do like the whoever asks pays rule, but I’m pretty flexible about such things. Having a cash crunch and need to split a check? Fine. Though if it were a first date, I might look at you a bit funny for a moment, being that much of a traditionalist.
Wonderful. And people wonder why I don’t date too much.
According to your friend, men fall into one of two categories. 1) looking for sex. or 2) cheap. I am curious, what are her opinions of her original courtship?
I feel that the person who does the inviting should pay, or at least be fully ready to foot the whole bill. AFAIAC, a first date (especially) isn’t entering for negotiations for sex, but a primer to see if I want to enter negotiations for sex.
Having been brought up in the South, I have somewhat traditional/old-fashioned views on dating.
If a man asks me out (or a woman), I assume that he/she will be paying. Unless otherwise stated, an invitation is implied consent to pay. I do not consider payment of dinner in any way implies that I will be willing to “pay them back” by means of sexual favours later.
If I ask someone out, then I assume that I will be paying. If I do not want to pay for your meal, I will ask you out in such a way as to make sure you know I have no interest in covering you, such as: “hey, I want to go to this new restaraunt, but it’s kind of pricey, wanna go – dutch treat?”
If a man asks me out then proceeds to split the check or expect me to pay – I will lose his number post-haste. It is beyond rude to invite someone out and then not pay. To me, the only thing more rude would be inviting me over to your place for dinner and then expecting me to cook and serve said dinner!
**I am married and don’t date, these things are said under the assumption that I were single and able to date.
I’ve never met a guy that has let me pay anything for the first date. They all seemed to accept it as a given and didn’t seem to be expecting anything from me afterwards. Maybe I’ve just been lucky in that respect.
If a man doesn’t offer to pay on the first date, I assume he is trying to communicate to me that this is not really a date and that he’s not really romantically interested in me. However, after the first date–or after romantic interest is established–I expect to split everything.
No, I don’t assume men who pay for the first date are expecting sex. I do assume they are communicating romantic interest, though. However, I have run into some men who insist on paying for everything on outings with women they aren’t really interested in. Let me just say to that type of man: stop it! You’re confusing me, and wasting your money. I expect to pay my own way with friends.
If a man doesn’t offer to pick up the check, and then makes it clear in other ways that he is romantically interested, I think he is 1) definitely socially awkward, to be clueless about the “pay on the first date to indicate romantic interest” rule, which is fairly universal, and 2) possibly, but not definitely, cheap. I continued to date the one guy I ever went out with who didn’t pay for the first date, but he did turn out to be a social moron in other ways as well, and I dropped him for someone else.
I’m a man, and I consider it my responsibility to pay if I asked her out, and my responsibility to pay for myself even if she asked me out. In neither case is sex an obligation. If a guy thinks of it that way he might as well skip dinner and hire a whore.
But having said that, I am aware there are women out there who go out with guys because “it’s a free meal.” A woman who goes out with a guy she otherwise has no interest in is tacky and rude. But it happens. Myself, I am perfectly willing to pay for the first date, the second date, even the third for a woman I like. After that, I expect to be splitting the check, and if she doesn’t like it, she’s welcome to find another man. It’s not a hard and fast rule though. If a woman was poorer than me but really liked me, and made it clear in other ways (cooking me dinner herself, etc.), I wouldn’t be a hardass about it. It’s mostly just a safeguard to prevent someone from using me. I’ve been taken for a ride by enough women by now that if they tell me they are “old fashioned” my response these days is 'Well, better get back into your time machine and find a man just like yourself then."
I don’t have a lot of sympathy for guys who are “too broke” to pay for a dinner and movie for two. If that’s the case, he should be out looking for a better job before he worries about dating.
I notice that in all three situations the guy is either a loser or a possible sexual predator.
Your friend sounds like a real catch. :rolleyes:
But I have to say that, maybe this is just the way it is for the under 30 crowd, but I’ve never heard of anyone being offended if the couple splits on the first date.
Wow, real winner there. Sounds like a person who is later going to complain to a close friend how long its been since she’s had sex because in their bizarro world she is put off by the idea other people are sexually interested in her
In February 2006 I was doing a lot of online dating, and met something like 10 women over the course of the month (or was it in April? I can’t remember but there was one month I met a lot of ladies). Every date I paid for dinner, which got kind of expensive that month. Still, it was fun. But yeah, with some people you’re either trying too hard or not trying hard enough. Rather than get frustrated about it, (which I did, for a while) the best thing to do is keep looking until you meet someone who appreciates it.
I guess I usually split it. Or if it’s somewhere really expensive, and he offers to pay, but I’ve been the one invited, then I’d be okay with it–but I would make an effort not to order something too terribly expensive…Ahem. But I don’t go around making elaborate rules about it in my mind. It’s more of a play it be ear situation. Gosh, I think I’m officially not high maintenance.
When I was dating, my default was that we were going dutch and never would have just assumed a guy was paying. Not because I was afraid he’d want something from me and I didn’t want to be indebted, but because I work and probably make as much money as he does; why should he automatically be the one to pick up the tab? If it’s an ongoing dating thing, we could alternate, or whatever arrangement we come to, but on the first date? Dutch, unless he insists vociferously, and then, I’d pay the next time, if there was a next time.
This makes me wonder… I have many male friends who insist on paying when we go out. Now, I’m not made of money, and most of them, well… are. Now, I’m not impoverished by any stretch of the imagination, but things get tight, and my socializing budget isn’t large. Some of them know this. Most of them don’t. Should I be assuming that they’re paying because they’re romatically interested in me? Because I feel like I’m pretty good at reading that, and I don’t think most of them are. Not seriously, anyway. And I know that when I’m flush, I’m always willing to pick up the tab for a friend, so as to enjoy their company. Guys? Thoughts?
