Who pays for dates?

In My Humble Opinion
1

A tangent in this thread made me wonder how other people handle paying for dates. As for myself, my boyfriend and I have gone dutch from the get-go, and it’s worked out fine - we both make roughly the same amount of money, have similar expenses, etc., and I don’t think there was any question, really - it just seemed like a natural thing to do. We’ve continued in this practice for over a year now, and I think it’s worked out well. However, I have been in relationships where we worked out that he paid for three outings, I’d pay for one, since he made substantially more than I did at that point (roughly 3x as much), but it still made me feel uncomfortable.

I know that some guys feel they should pay for everything, especially on the first few dates. I think of this as sort of chivalrous, but I think that if I’m going out to dinner with someone, it’s not because I want free food, it’s because I want his company. He shouldn’t have to pay for mine any more than I should have to pay for his.

Bearing all this in mind, I humbly present the following rules:

1. Whoever asked on the first date pays. This can be nicely reciprocated on the second date, if there is one.
2. If the dating continues/progresses, an informal dutch-type arrangement can be worked out.
3. If one person (male OR female) makes substantially more money than the other, payment arrangements can be adjusted to reflect that. Not, like, “The bill is $125, you pay 20%, so that’s $25 for you…”, but the wealthier person can pick up more tabs as time goes on.

What do y’all think?

2

If you want result oriented dating:), then paying for the date should be an automatic no-brainer.
I always paid for the first several dates. My whole goal was to create a certain romantic effect, and I was not going to restrict what I thought we should do on dates by her budget.
IMHO…

When you date a girl, you need to look confident and put together. You need to listen to what she is looking for, and deliver it in the best way you can. Letting yourself get bogged down in uncomfortable situations like who pays for what is counter-productive in the beginning.

I know a traditional, sexist view of what to do on dates is probably frowned upon here at the SD, but I found that it did work the best. Treat her like she is a queen. Wine her and dine her.

Make her feel special.
Then, after you guys get to know each other better, you can work out all the stuff that actually decides whether or not a relationship is going to work.

3

This is assuming you make more money than she does, right? Because that’s not always the case.

4

I assume no such thing.
If I was attempting to date a women who had more money than me, the same principles go. I wouldn’t figure out what I wanted to do and then submit a budget proposal to her.

What I could afford set the budget, I wouldn’t even consider how much money she made. I WOULD consider what kind of stuff she wanted to do, but I would rule out anything I couldn’t pay for myself.
Simple first rule of dating…

Make the woman feel special.

One simple part of that rule is by planning out the first several dates. (and paying for them)
This whole dutch payment thing is pushed by feminists and poor guys, and only the die-hard feminists really stick to it.

5

The person who tenders the invitation. Or, if it’s a couple who have separate finances, you trade off. I hate going Dutch and always have–it feels niggling. I like being treated and I like treating, and trading off allows me to do both.

If the man always had to pay for dates, then women dating other women would have to ask the guy at the next table to pick up the tab. (Hmmm. This idea has merit. ;))

6

What a load of crap. Having someone pay for my stuff doesn’t make me feel special - it’s the attention my date pays to me. The best dates I’ve ever had have been on the cheap. The worst have been when my date tried so hard to impress me with what he has and what he could pay for that it made him seem like a self-important braggart. I don’t want to know a guy’s financial status before I get to know the guy.

And as we saw in the referenced thread, if I haven’t put out by the third paid-for date, I must be using the guy - is that what you’re getting at with your “results-oriented” dating?

What if a woman asks a man out? Should the man still feel obligated to pay?

I think the whole male-must-pay thing is a holdover from when dating meant wooing girls who didn’t work and had no money of her own. Of course a man would be expected to pay then - he worked. These days, you’d be hard-pressed to find a single girl who lived off her parents - so why should a guy be expected to bankrupt himself to fund his girlfriend’s social life? I certainly wouldn’t stand for it if it were the other way around.

7

No offense, but not everyone will like everyone else’s style. Succesful dating needs to include knowing when to just walk away from someone.

Isn’t that why we date? To see if you like the guy and find out who he is? So our styles might clash. That doesn’t make either one better or worse, although you seem to be trying to “win” some sort of high ground in here.

Before you get yourself all worked up in a tizzy there dear, let me help straighten you out. If you want to put words in my mouth so bad, maybe you should just sit at home and talk to yourself instead of asking for others opinions.

You invented this:

From this:

Notice the word part, and please pay particular attention to the fact that I threw the part about paying for them at the very END of the thought.

If you want to argue that having someone take you out and pay for everything doesn’t help make you feel special, then I think you may be further away from reality than I thought.

It is called TREATING someone. We all use it, and it is valid. When it is your birthday, people take you out. When you graduate, people take you out.

It is a PART of making someone feel special.

I never said what my budget was, I only said that I set the budget for the date based on what I could afford. There have been times the budget was pretty damned small, and other times that my budget was pretty healthy.

My point was that you do what you can, with what you have. You were the one who tried to imply that had to mean something expensive.

So what?

Straw man, Straw man, Straw man…

This guy has no part in this debate. Are you saying that particular individual would have been someone you would have dated if only the first several dates had been dutch?

It doesn’t matter who pays if one of the people on the date is a schmuck.

Then close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears. How the hell are you supposed to go on a date with someone without having a general idea what their finances are?

Assuming that you know the person enough to go out with them, you probably know enough random facts about them to automatically peg them somewhere on the economic scale. Then, the first date should give away a whole lot more.

Did you guys take the bus, or did he pick you up in a car? Does he have a job, do you know what it is? Where does he live? Rich neighborhood? Does he have his own place? House or apartment? Own or rent?

These are things I generally found out about people in the first month or so of dating them without any effort. These are just common experience kind of things. If you are not in a position to know the answers to these things, then you are not getting to know the other person.

Touchy-touchy.

Femi-nazi maybe?

I made no such comment about “putting-out.” If you want to know my take on sex, I think our society is much to promiscuos. (but that is another thread)

I would say that result-orientated dating would be making the woman want to come back for more. Having her brag about you when she is with her friends. Having her friends jealous that she found such a great guy. When you are not around, she is thinking about seeing you again.

Result-orientated dating also lets you leave with your head held high if things don’t work out. There is nothing worse than dating someone, having it not work-out and getting slammed because everyone thinks you are a schmuck.

There are a thousand different variables. Do you want me to make a crazy statement that there is no such situation where the guy should let the woman pay?

Sure, if a woman asks a guy out, then he should be alright with letting her pay. BUT…when he accepts, he should be prepared to pay if it looks like it will be even the slightest little hang-up point on the date. He should also be prepared to pay for unexpected incidentals like valet parking, coat check, and side trips.

Another big rule is:

Don’t look like a cheapskate.

(no matter what)

I know there are millions of people in this country, so each individual is going to be different, but most men I know would feel uncomfortable with the woman paying for everything on a first date. (parking, dinner, movie, tip, drinks at a bar…etc…etc…)

Please note that I am talking about the first several dates. The getting to know you period. Once you move past the dating stage to the girlfriend/boyfriend stage, I agree with you. Relationships are much more complicated than dates.

So do you want to talk about who pays for what in a long-term relationship or on a date?

My fiance and I pool all our money except for a couple of small revenue streams. We keep those for ourselves so that we can keep our sanity by making independent purchases without having a budget discussion.
…and yes…

I still take her out and do things for her to help make her feel special.
Because to me she is.

8

Here’s my opinion. Forgive me if it’s been shaped by recent events and I’m sorry in advance if it rubs you the wrong way.

The first date I’ll pay for. I have no problems treating a woman that I may or may not see again. I do it because I want you to feel comfortable and not worry about the evening. I’m not expecting any “payment” in return. You might like me, you might not. You don’t owe me anything. We’re just getting to know each other, we’re trying to find out if we match up on any level, and maybe at the end of the night you really don’t like me. Had a lovely time, g’night.

Second date, however, is a whole 'nother ballgame. If you don’t offer to pay for anything on the second date and you don’t offer any “payment” at the end of the night (and I’m not even talking sex), then screw you. Harsh? Maybe. But look at it from my perspective. You used me. You used me to buy you things when had no intension of pursuing a relationship. Maybe you consider us friends. Wonderful. But I don’t buy my friends dinner and I’ve known my friends longer than I’ve known you. Maybe you want to wait awhile before investing emotionally. Fine again. But tell me before the second date so I know what to expect. If I truly like you, I’ll understand. There’s more to a relationship than just physical. Let’s face it, you wouldn’t go out with me again if you didn’t like me on some level so I know there’s something between us. But if the end of the second date comes with a brush off and no explanation, I will feel used and rightly so.

9

**

That’s reasonable. But then I’ve always been the one to ask for the date and as a result I’ve always paid.

**

This seems very reasonable as well.

This last one is where you’ve lost me. Option #3 would be such a pain in the ass it would just kill all the romance. I don’t quibble over bills when I’m having lunch with friends I couldn’t quibble over a bill with a date.

Marc

10

**

Fine, but not all men see the first date as a trial offer, so to speak. Some men see paying for dates as an entitlement of sex. Speaking as a woman, there are relatively few men whom I’d sleep with after only one date. In fact, there have been a few who have put me off so badly that I ended up paying for the date just so the men in question would not have that entitlement.

Ah, Ender. It takes two to have a relationship, and sometimes (and I speak for myself only) this one has had a lousy day and it sours my disposition. It’s also possible that the first date left me on the fence, and the second one is the deciding factor. Sometimes, it takes more than two. There’s really no minimum or maximum number of dates to figure things out, especially if it looks to be a really serious relationship.

As for who’s paying, usually, after one or two dates, I’ll at least contribute something. I’ll spring for the movie, or a round of drinks or whatever.

If I really like your company, and it’s working out well, I don’t think who pays for what is really a big deal.

Robin

11

Wow, I didn’t know there was this much controversy!

I am really only confortable with a “dutch” arrangement. Perhaps this is because I have a LOT of non-romantic guy friends, so I am used to going out with guys on non-romantic terms. When it is a romantic situation, I want to treat it like we are friends, not like I am some young girl being wooed. It makes me really uncomfortable when guys insist on paying for me. It makes me feel like they don’t accept that I am a capable adult with steady income of my own. It also makes me wonder about what the guy’s intentions are. Even if there are no sexual expectations, it makes me feel really shady to be essentially paid for my company. Above and beyond that is the fact that I don’t feel comfortable at all spending someone else’s money. If the guy is picking up the whole thing, I search out the cheapest entrees, drink water with my dinner, and that sort of thing. I also don’t feel comfortable makeing suggestions about the date (i.e. If I want to get a drink somewhere, I won’t suggest it becuase I don’t want to make him spend that money on me) so I just sit along passivly doing all the things the guy wants to do. The inability to make suggestions makes me feel like somewhat less of a person, and has led to me going along with some really lame bad dates just so I won’t cost the guy any more money.

Perhaps I just see dating a different way…it seems that here the prevailing purpose of dating is to show the other person a good time. I always looked at dating as SHAREING a nice time with someone and getting to know them better.

If you think this is extreme, just think about how you would feel if some woman you hardly knew took you out and spent a lot of money on you. It’d freak you out, right? Diminish your feeling of manhood? Make you wonder what they wanted from you? Well, the same thing happens to us.

Of course, I am not all that rigid with these rules. If I know my partner’s finances are a bit low or I would like to do something with him he can’t afford, I will treat. The same thing goes with him. It doesn’t make me uncomfortable to pay or be paid for on special occasions, as long as they happen on both sides about equally. And I do make exceptions for vast income disparitys. Even then, I’d like to see it “I’ll pay for dinner- you can pick up desserts” instead of “I’m going to pay for everything”.

Wow- does all this make me an extremeist?

12

You bet. That’s why I started this thread - to se how other people work.

**

All right then. I’m not trying to win anything here - I was just curious to see how other people managed it. My only issue with your comments was the “die-hard feminist and poor guys” comment you made.

**

**

Gosh, thanks! I was hoping a someone could come along and help me out. I was SO confused.

**

**

'Fraid not, sparky. The quote of yours I referenced was the “This whole dutch payment thing is pushed by feminists and poor guys, and only the die-hard feminists really stick to it” remark. My “load of crap” comment was referring ONLY to that statement. Why is it considered “feminazi” to want to pay your own way? Why should women be denied the opportunity to show affection to their sig. other in the same manner that men feel the need to do? As I mentioned before, because I can speak only from my own experience, the “trade off” arrangement that someone here suggested sounds similar to what I do. Obviously, what works for me doesn’t work for everyone…hence the question.

Not at all. What I meant - and I’ll go slowly here - was when I’m on a date, the company is more important than the payment. If my friends want to take me out for my birthday on them, that’s great, and they know it will be reciprocated in kind. If they can’t afford it, I’ll pay my own way; the time we spend together is much more important to me than who pays. Same goes for dates.

**

**

No. As for your first statement, sure, I agree. But what I was saying was that it was NOT IMPORTANT that I’m paid for - expensive or not.

**

Give me a break. Feel smart now?

**

No. I’m saying that his need to show off by paying for everything, and rejecting my well-intended offers to pick up one tab or another, seemed weird to me. If it’s that important that a guy pay for everything it makes me wonder if he has anything to offer besides money. Again, only drawing upon my own experience here. Your mileage may vary.

**

**

Sure, I know (or can infer) the basic financial stuff about a guy before going out with him. Perhaps I should have said I don’t NEED to know how much he can pay. It’s not important to me, once they get past the basic requirement of having a job and not living off society/parents.

**

**

If you read the referenced thread, my comment was in reference to someone else’s comments there - which sounded similar to your “results-oriented” dating comment. Since it sounds like that isn’t what you meant by that comment, fine. If I jumped to conclusions because of the rather smarmy tone of your comments, please do forgive me.

**

Of course not. That wasn’t what I was getting at at all. I’m saying that there shouldn’t be a hard-and-fast rule about it - that everyone, woman or man, should feel comfortable picking up the tab (and allowing the other to pick up the tab) at any time, and that it’s important to be considerate of the other’s circumstances. Why not? Because of some macho man-must-pay rule?

**

And a woman who never pays for anything isn’t a cheapskate?

**

Obviously, this is where we differ. I don’t see why the price of the first several dates should be the man’s responsibility. Again, what if it is the woman who asks the man out the first time? Does it make a difference to you?

**

Actually, both. Evenings out with my boyfriend still feel like dates to me, and I like it that way.

**

Sounds fair to me. Why is it so wrong that things work that way early on, too?

**

As well you should. I think this works both ways, don’t you?

For the record, I didn’t have a problem with your comments or your methodology until your “die-hard feminists and poor guys” comment. That’s the load of crap, there. I don’t know why you felt the need to resort to name calling (and it WAS name calling, obviously I support going dutch, making me a target of your comment) but I’ll do my level best to keep this discussion civil. Thank you, Freedom2, for your enlightening comments.

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MGibson *

Sorry if I was fuzzy there. I’m not at all for quibbling. I think the “trade-off” comment someone made here was the best way around this - you get this one, I get this one. Not rigid, but considerate.

14

That about sums it up for me. Why would anyone have a problem with that?

15

Yeah, me either.

**

I hope not, because it sounds like you and I agree.

16

That’s odd…for me, the money thing has never been a problem. It was successfully getting a girl to agree to a date that causes the problems. Oh well, carry on.

17

[Moderator Hat: ON]

This thread is being moved to IMHO at the OP’s request (and because I agree).

David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator

[Moderator Hat: OFF]

18

I try to always carry enough money with me to pay at least my own way. Or a token amount toward it. Or (being a poor college student) warn whoever it is that I have no money and he is paying.

When I can I will pay. I will quickly and gleefully snatch the check away and refuse to give it back. I like to, I like having money and being able to treat friends. When I can’t pay, I will mooch, and be upfront about it.

I had a friend who would seriously wine and dine me, way beyond what I could finacially handle and I warned him that if he simply wanted me to come to a fancy dinner with him I’d be happy to dress appropriately and behave nicely, but that was the extent of my obligation. (Actually, with me, that’s a big leap…I’m not the most dignified of people. “Ladylike” is a costume I wear.)

Anyway, my basic rule, when all other things are equal, is that the first person to get the check can pay it. And I’m fast.

19

Here is another answer that is based on experience. My exhubby was CHEAP! Therefore to prevent myself from falling victim to another cheapskate who is a terrible provider I demand that the guy pay for most of the dates. I will treat for some of the dates, and on those I am not cheap and will actually spend about the same amount as the guy.