My uncle told an offensive, racist joke at a birthday party. The joke was heard by children. I think he should be banned from Thanksgiving and then put on zero tolerance probation for three years. Some think this is too harsh.
What is your view?
I’d say it depends on the joke and whether he meant the children to hear it. ‘Offensive’ and ‘racist’ are slippery definitions. One man’s offensive is another man’s mildly provocative.
Is this his usual MO or was this out of character? If it’s a pattern, then yes, he should be on double secret probation indefinitely. But if he had a little too much to drink or exercised poor judgement on this one occasion, then I’d cut him some slack. Also depends on the joke…
I don’t think there’s any racist joke that can be made that should result in a banning from the family. If he said something racist to, say, Cousin Jim’s black wife, well that’d be different. As it appears, it just just a joke which, by definition, shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Let it go. This is no worse than saying your dress is ugly.
Depends on the joke to some extent. What specifically did he say, and what was the context?
Next time he does that say out loud to your children “Uncle Joe is a friggin idiot”. It’s up to him if he wants to keep coming.
I agree the Uncle should not be banned -especially if this was a one time deal that the kids inadvertently heard. If he’s a good guy, asking him to be careful around the kids should not be an issue.
BUT, I disagree that racists jokes are no worse than saying “your dress is ugly”, especially around kids. All jokes are not created equal. Jokes that denigrate people and/or promote bigotry and hatred are not funny just because they are called jokes. Many people hide truly hateful opinions under the guise of “jokes”. Jokes about sensitive areas need to be told with caution to consider the feelings of people who are the target of the “humor” (some may think it’s funny, others may be really hurt, depending on the person, context and nature of the relationship). Finally, racist jokes can affect children, as they will absorb what they hear as truth and think that is really ok to believe stereotypes about people.
I agree with everyone who says that it depends on the joke. It slightly depends on whether he intended the kids to hear it.
I don’t believe in giving people a free pass to act as they wish when they drink too much. You are responsible for your actions whether you’re drinking or not–and if you drink too much, you’re responsible for that, too.
And make sure to do it in front of him.
I am in the same situation. The election is bringing this stuff out.
My Aunt Doris calls once or twice a week from Florida. A few days ago she told me:
She would get me an Obama Christmas tree ornament. She said everyone needs a nigger hanging from a tree.
After avoiding her for a week or so, I have decided to let it slide. She is 90 years old now and has little family left. Rarely do I regret kindness.
But if she does it again, God help her.
There is no question he intended the kids to hear it. His own kids found it funny and had heard it before.
The other problem is that when he got challenged on his joke, he got offended and said nobody could tell him what to think.
The joke was what do President Kennedy and Obama have in common? Answer: nothing yet.
Sorry, that’s awful. And he’s right- no one can tell him what to think. This has to do with what he chooses to SAY.
Why not instead do damage control on the kids, make it a learning moment? (“Now, do you understand why everyone thinks uncle Chuck is a completely jackass? That’s right, Toby; it’s not very nice to be a racist dipshit-- poor dim uncle Chuck should be so embarrassed!”) Kids will learn that there are people out there like this, so maybe best to have them know how to deal with its existence.
ETA-- after reading later moments in the thread: Ugh. What a jackass. Assassination jokes are Heeeeelarious!
How is that racist? Offensive and in poor taste, sure, but what’s that got to do with his race?
I am not comfortable calling him a jackass or idiot in front his kids.
The subtext is that he is going to be and should be killed because he is black–like thise Jesse Jackson being elected and killed jokes.
Doesn’t sound racist to me, but it surely if offensive. So if you can’t call him out in front of the kids, do it privately, making the point that nobody can tell him what to think, but they sure as hell can tell him what he can say in front of your kids.
Who, in the family, was the host/ess of this gathering? Did they find it in poor taste?
I’m having a hard time believing the kids really got the joke. I was born in 1983 and I was in my teens before I even knew who the hell President Kennedy was, much less that he was assassinated. I think this joke requires too much abstract thought for most kids to grasp. Also, while it was probably inspired by racism, it’s not an overtly racist joke – more like a cynical commentary on American culture and history.
I think it’s perfectly legitimate to tell Uncle Joe to STFU. However, I think banning someone from your family for being openly racist is a little like banning a newspaper for being openly racist. I don’t think censorship is the best approach with these issues. Better to put it all out into the open, and expose it for the idiocy it is.
I admit I feel that way because it’s how I deal with racists in my own family. If someone I love with my whole heart is being a racist asshole, I give it to 'em straight. ‘‘Why are you racist? It’s such a hurtful thing to be.’’ This puts them on the defensive and usually gets them to shut up. I realize if you hate Uncle Joe and Uncle Joe hates you, it’s going to be a lot more difficult. But I think it’s better than ostracizing him from the whole family.
I think you are the one who should stay away.
The problem isn’t that the joke was racist.
The problem is you.
Let him stay. Everyone needs a crazy uncle to ruin Thanksgiving. It’s tradition.
Seriously, though, you’re way overreacting. You can’t lay down probation on a grown ass man. Tell him to watch it around the kids or tell him he’s not welcome, but “probation” is such a whiny, passive aggressive half-assed attempt at asserting dominance that he’d (rightly) laugh in your face for trying it.
If by ‘family events’ you mean extended family, then harshness isn’t an issue. My feelings are you don’t get to tell your extended family who they should and should not socialize with. You can not invite him to your house, and you can not go over when he’s at someone else’s house, but outside of your own kids you don’t get to play family judge. If you’re worried for little nieces and nephews then tell their parents about the joke, but let them decide how they want their own kids to interact with Uncle.
If you are just talking about gatherings with your own kids, IANAP but I would at least (privately) do a round of “think what you want, but we’re not going to bring the kids around if you talk like that”. then talk to your kids about how adult’s aren’t perfect, they’re going to hear racist jokes from other people anyhow. if the jokes are persistent, well, he’s an adult so you can’t punish him, but you are perfectly free to just avoid the guy.