Should Obama end Cuban problems?

[BrainGlutton]

@Chronos

The OP asserts without support that the US embargo of Cuba constitutes “the Cuban problems”. If that were the case, then ending the embargo would be a no-brainer, but I think that’s a pretty big thing to prove.

It’s a problem for the Cubans and does no good to the U.S. Nor does it do anything to destabilize Castro’s regime, which was the whole point, and should not be the point any more. We’ve got enough trouble without an unstable Cuba.

[DubsyUin]

@E-Sabbath

Not only yes, but hell yes. It’d give both of our economies a shot in the arm, improve QoL for Cubans significantly…

Really, I ain’t seeing a down side except for having to tell some old mob families to shove it.

Damn good answer. Nothing makes two countries friends like making money together.

[What_Exit]

@Chronos

The OP asserts without support that the US embargo of Cuba constitutes “the Cuban problems”. If that were the case, then ending the embargo would be a no-brainer, but I think that’s a pretty big thing to prove.

Chronos, seriously what are the reasons to continue this failed policy that is helping no one? I cannot come up with one reason to continue it except inertia.

[sailor]

@Chronos

The OP asserts without support that the US embargo of Cuba constitutes “the Cuban problems”. If that were the case, then ending the embargo would be a no-brainer, but I think that’s a pretty big thing to prove.

I am not sure how you are interpreting the OP. I interpret “Cuban problems” to mean “American foreign relations problem with Cuba” and not “Cuba’s economic problems”.

I agree Cuba’s economic problems are not caused by the American embargo and lifting the embargo would do little to alleviate them. Cuba’s economic problems are caused by an economic system which is an utter failure. If Cuba produced anything of value they would have money to buy stuff from the rest of the world but they don’t.

[levdrakon]

How bad could it be if American tourists swamped the place demanding Starbuck’s lattes and McDonald’s cheese burgers? Seriously, I think dollar-holding tourists could accomplish what an armed invasion never could.

[BrainGlutton]

@sailor

I am not sure how you are interpreting the OP. I interpret “Cuban problems” to mean “American foreign relations problem with Cuba” and not “Cuba’s economic problems”.

I agree Cuba’s economic problems are not caused by the American embargo and lifting the embargo would do little to alleviate them. Cuba’s economic problems are caused by an economic system which is an utter failure. If Cuba produced anything of value they would have money to buy stuff from the rest of the world but they don’t.

They do produce something of value: Sugar. Which, thanks to the embargo, they can’t export to the U.S.

Tobacco, too, but only the cigarheads care about that.

They also produce doctors. Best medical schools in Latin America. And the only place in LA that’s doing original pharmaceuticals research.

[JRDelirious]

@E72521

The Florida Cuban voting bloc doesn’t have that kind of influence down here anymore. Cubans are becoming a smaller and smaller fraction of the total Hispanic population of Florida. I’m not seeing a lot of enthusiasm from the Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, or Mexicans for the embargo. I think he could pull it off later down the road, but the sooner the better.

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/2008/11/6/obama_wins_floridas_hispanic_vote.htm

Quite so. Hundreds of thousands of non-Cubans have moved into FL over the last decade, the census figures in 2010 oughta be interesting.

Not only that, but with the passing of time, ever more of the “Floricubans” will be US-born several-generation-removed descendants, only linked to Cuba perhaps on the side of one grandparent. And, one would expect, more and more of these would realize their “patria” IS the USA of 2008, it’s NOT Cuba of 1958. (Coming up shortly, it’s the 50th Anniversary of the fall of Batista)

…in any case: we have normalized diplomatic and trade relations with Vietnam. Vietnam. Years ago.
Compared to that, the hardline stance on Cuba is hard to keep up except as a point of pride, and probably the one thing keeping the old bastard alive is the desire to live to see his surviving adversaries’ faces when America finally says let’s all move on with our lives.

[Chimera]

Hell no! No American Brains for Zombie Castro!
Er…um…

The downside of a horde of American Tourists is all on the side of the Cuban Government trying to maintain their illusions and their control. If Bush can talk to Qaddafi (as he recently did), and we can send Condi Rice to North Korea, then we should be holding talks with Cuba, which is located just off America’s Penis.

[BrainGlutton]

@Chimera

The downside of a horde of American Tourists is all on the side of the Cuban Government trying to maintain their illusions and their control.

Well, that, and on our side I would expect a small but measurable sudden uptick in the incidence of STDs . . . (Nobody goes to Cuba for the food, there are no casinos any more . . . work it out.)

[Vimp]

Would Cuba become part of NAFTA?

[straight_man]

Why should America push for better Cuban relations? This.

It’s extremely harmful to American interests and powers if China gains leverage that close to the United States. (I think the argument for that position writes itself.)

[The_Tao_s_Revenge]

@E72521

It depends on whether or not the Cubans have learned their lesson. If it is decided that they have, he should.

And what lesson where they supposed to learn from daddy america?

[sailor]

@BrainGlutton

They do produce something of value: Sugar. Which, thanks to the embargo, they can’t export to the U.S.

The value of the sugar they produce is not enough to get them anywhere. That the USA refuses to buy that sugar is irrelevant. They can sell their sugar to the rest of the world. The problem is their productivity is so bad that with the money they can get for their sugar they can hardly feed even the people who make the sugar, much less have a superavit.

Tobacco, too, but only the cigarheads care about that.

Again, the rest of the world buys Cuban cigars. So what is Americans won’t? The fact is that their productivity is dismal. They produce little of value which can be exported. Now their main source of income is tourism. While American tourists would increase the size of the industry for now they have plenty of tourists from non-USA countries.

They also produce doctors. Best medical schools in Latin America. And the only place in LA that’s doing original pharmaceuticals research.

This is mainly Cuban propaganda and wildly exagerated. Anyone who has gone to Cuba will tell you that the locals will approach you and ask if you can send them medicines. Medicines sent from Florida are the main source of medical drugs in Cuba. The hospitals from outside look depressing, even with no window panes. The superiority of Cuba in medical field is an exageration of Cuban propaganda. Even Fidel castro was worsened by the mistreatment of Cuban doctors and finally called in a Spanish doctor who was apalled by what the Cubans had done.

[phouka]

@Ravenman

I think the US policy toward Cuba is pretty much indefensible, but let’s get real: of all the problems facing the US, this is pretty far down the list.

If Obama does decide to tackle the issue, let’s hope it waits until after the 2010 midterm elections. The first two years of his presidency have to be about the economy, health care, and Iraq.

Yeah, but the resources necessary to restore diplomatic relations and end the embargo are a hell of a lot less than what we need to deal with the other issues. We’re talking chump change at this point.

I think we should do it, especially if we want to see Cuba renounce Communism. Nothing brings the Commies around faster than a chance to make some money.

[Captain_Carrot]

Paging lalenin, paging lalenin to Great Debates…

[Mapache]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

So if Obama restores diplomatic relations and ends the boycott, what should be done about all the financial claims by US citizens and corporations against the Cuban government ?

So what you expect? There was a revolution in Cuba, against the incredibly corrupt Batista regime, and the American (mostly) gangsters that had paid the bribes to acquire Cuban property (by killing or driving off the Cuban property owners) lost their stolen property. Do you believe that people who bought Nazi loot deserved to keep it?

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@levdrakon

How bad could it be if American tourists swamped the place demanding Starbuck’s lattes and McDonald’s cheese burgers? Seriously, I think dollar-holding tourists could accomplish what an armed invasion never could.

I’ve changed my mind. You Americans should keep up the embargo. Stay away from Cuba. Really. It’s awful there. You wouldn’t like it. The resorts are all sandy and hot, and full of nasty Canadians and Eurotrash.

[Guinastasia]

@sailor

The value of the sugar they produce is not enough to get them anywhere. That the USA refuses to buy that sugar is irrelevant. They can sell their sugar to the rest of the world. The problem is their productivity is so bad that with the money they can get for their sugar they can hardly feed even the people who make the sugar, much less have a superavit.

Because we can have Coke with REAL sugar rather than “high fructose corn syrup” for once?
I hate to say it, but we saw how rabid and obsessive the Cuban voting bloc in Florida is during the Elian Gonzalez debacle. I think Obama would be better off waiting a bit-doing it right away would be a huge disaster. Besides-would he have the power to end the embargo on his own-and would Congress support him? This would only give fuel to the right wing accusations of “he’s a commie/Marxist/socialist!” bullshit.
One thing at a time, peeps.

Tread carefully and all that.

[sailor]

Nationalization - Wikipedia

The Castro government gradually expropriated all foreign-owned private companies after the Cuban Revolution of 1959. Most of these companies were owned by U.S. corporations and individuals. Bonds at 4.5% interest over twenty years were offered to U.S. companies, but the offer was rejected by U.S. ambassador Philip Bonsal, who requested the compensation up front.[1] Only a minor amount, $1.3 million, was paid to U.S. interests before deteriorating relations ended all cooperation between the two governments.[1] The United States established a registry of claims against the Cuban government, ultimately developing files on 5,911 specific companies. The Cuban government has refused to discuss the effective and adequate compensation of U.S. claims. The United States government continues to insist on compensation for U.S. companies. In 1966-68, the Castro government nationalized all remaining privately owned business entities in Cuba, down to the level of street vendors.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761569844_9/cuba.html

After 1991 the Cuban government offered compensation for seized property, released political prisoners, permitted U.S. news bureaus in Cuba, and stopped trying to export the ideals of the revolution. However, the United States has not reestablished relations with Cuba despite these concessions. The Congress of the United States, first through the Torricelli Law of 1991 and then in the Helms-Burton Law of 1996, demanded elections in Cuba similar to those in the United States and the removal of Castro and his associates. In 1996 U.S.-Cuban relations once again grew hostile after Cuban fighter planes shot down two civilian aircraft piloted by U.S.-based Cuban exiles, which convinced U.S. president Bill Clinton to sign the Helms-Burton Law.

In 1998, however, President Clinton responded to international condemnation of the U.S. economic blockade by relaxing restrictions on the admittance of food and medicine, and on money sent to Cuban citizens from individuals in the United States. Sports also served as the medium for cultural exchange when an arrangement worked out in 1998 through informal diplomatic channels allowed the Baltimore Orioles, a professional U.S. baseball team, and the Cuban All-Stars baseball team to play games in Baltimore, Maryland, and Havana.

The Cuban-Spanish treaty of 16 November 1986 was an agreement on compensations to be paid by the government of Cuba to Spanish nationals who had property expropiated by the Cuban government.

So it seems the Cuban government was willing to discuss the issue of compensation but it is the US government who won’t.

[levdrakon]

@Euphonious_Polemic

I’ve changed my mind. You Americans should keep up the embargo. Stay away from Cuba. Really. It’s awful there. You wouldn’t like it. The resorts are all sandy and hot, and full of nasty Canadians and Eurotrash.

Too laaaaate. Heh, heh, heh. We’re coming. Like the Borg.