Thanks to Shoeless Joe and his cohorts you almost didn’t have a game to boycott. But sure, put him in. Rose, too. Hell, legalize gambling. Let the players make bets on the game. And when the game collapses from the rot, you’ll never have to worry again about boycotting baseball as it will no longer exist.
Some people just want to watch things burn.
Pete Rose is a mentally deficient scumbag and baseball does itself good by disassociating itself from him.
And when I was 7 years old, Pete Rose was my hero.
Shoeless Joe was acquitted. He didn’t participate in the throwing of the world series.
Pete Rose bet on his team, not against his team.
I find his actions a lot more palatable than Babe Ruth’s drunken debauchery, Ty Cobb’s misogynistic womanizing and today’s PED game. Granted, neither of those actions make a person ineligible according to the rules, but being ineligible is different than being unrecognizable. I’m not asking for Pete Rose to be allowed back in to play or manage or be GM or even a scout. I’m saying he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame because of his actions on the field, not his character off the field.
Some people might find cheaters a better fit than gamblers in baseball and that is fine, that’s their opinion. Like you said, some people just want to watch things burn.
You are not fully aware of the facts of the case.
Jackson was acquitted of fraud. He was not acquitted of conspiring to throw the World Series, because he was never charged with that.
The fact that Joe Jackson conspired to throw the World Series is not a matter of opinion. It is established fact. Jackson said he did it, under oath. He admitted to engaging in the conspiracy and taking money in exchange for losing games on purpose. He described when he received the money and how he demanded more. Why would be say such things if they weren’t true?
Frankly, I would not believe Pete Rose if he said two and two makes four. Rose has lied about every element of his behaviour. He has manipulated long time friends and lied to them to further his agenda. Why anyone would believe him about anything I can’t begin to imagine.
That’s your opinion, which is yours to hold. Personally I agree Ty Cobb was as bad a human being as Pete Rose. Rose is not banned from baseball for being a bad person, he is banned for breaking the rule against gambling on baseball.
I don’t know why people cannot grasp this difference or why it’s so important.
The rules don’t call for banning, the rules call for being ineligible. So he can’t play and manage, fine. The banning is 100% political, not rules.
“Permanently ineligible” ~is~ MLB rules language for banned.
Okay, I guess I owe everyone an apology. I never read up on gambling and baseball, and never realized how much of a negative impact it had on the game early. Pete Rose is definitely guilty of gambling on baseball, and there were previous examples, including team owners that were banned. So I guess, until the rules change (and I think the banning should be expanded to include PEDs) Pete Rose deserves to stay banned.
Yes. This is the basic rule of professional baseball. This rule is even more important than, “Hit to right with runners on second and third and less than two outs.” Only one of these rules is posted in every professional baseball clubhouse. Guess which one it is.
I’ve made a nearly identical post before, but here goes anyway.
I’ve heard John Dowd himself say several times, “I wish I could have sat down with Pete, bought him a beer, and told him just to admit what he did, show some remorse, and promise to seek help. If he’d done that, he’d be managing the Reds today. I honestly believe that.”
I think Dowd is right. But you know what? I’m GLAD Pete couldn’t force himself to shed a few crocodile tears. I’m glad he’s been such an unrepentant putz. I’m glad he’s tried to bluff and brazen his way through this mess.
Because he never deserved a second chance, but he WOULD have gotten one if he’d shown the tiniest bit of regret, if he’d offered a minimal expression of sorrow. But he never did. To the very end, he tried to scam everybody. He has never stopped shooting himself in the foot, and I couldn’t be happier.
Even if this were stipulated to be true, it’s not a defense. A corrupt incentive to win this game at the expense of the team’s prospects for the season (e.g. overworking and risking injury to key players) is no less corrupt than a corrupt incentive to lose a game.
Now here you’re on firmer ground. You’re right, Pete Rose cannot be enshrined in the Hall of Fame for a “political” reason, that reason being the Hall of Fame passing a rule that says that permanently ineligible players cannot be elected after Rose was banned. It solved a potential problem in that back then before Pete came off the lies there was a very real possibility that they would have voted him in anyway based on his lies, and MLB wouldn’t tolerate a guy who did the one thing that could destroy the game being given the highest honor that can be bestowed.
Now, of course, everybody knows who and what Pete is. Even if they rescind the rule he’ll never get in. He would go straight to the Veteran’s Committee, loaded with people he lied to for years. Forget it.
It’s not like Rose is some upper tier Hall of Famer anyway. Excellent ballplayer, but the ultimate compiler more than a dominant force. Sure he had 67 more hits than Cobb, but he also had 2500 more at-bats. In fact, he played in more games, racked up more plate appearances and at-bats than any other player in MLB history. For a guy that played power positions, his power numbers were anemic: career slugging percentage of .409.
All that Charlie Hustle nonsense? He should have stopped at first. He stole bases at an embarrassing 58% clip. Rose was also a below average defender for the bulk of his career.
Ok, ha ha, of course he is Hall worthy. I just think he’s bad for baseball and a really unlikable* human being.
*I never forgave Rose for the Fosse hit in the All-Star game. Sure, Fosse said it was a clean play, but what the fuck? It was just an exhibition, you stupid bitch. Just fucking slide.
Yes. After the story came out, the situation for Rose was: “Pete, you screwed up - bad. But if you’re really a straight-up honest guy with just this one (truly dreadful) black mark on your record, you’ll recover, reach the HoF, and be regarded as among the best ever.”
His response: “Hey, but I’m not a straight-up honest guy - I’m a low-class, lying SOB, and you’ll all understand that before I’m through.”
He was right - we understand.
The ban was based on a written rule, Rule 21. So how is it 100% not about rules?
At the risk of pointing out something I would have thought was AMAZINGLY obvious, had the decision on Rose been political he never would have been suspended. They’d have swept it all under the rug. Rose was very, very popular, a symbol of the game. The only way it did baseball any good to throw him out was if, in fact, MLB legitimately believed Rose’s gambling was a threat to the major leagues.
It isnt necessary. Any baseball fan knows of Roses accomplishments. He still gets paid to appear at events and sign autographs. Getting into the HOF would just be window dressing.
Pete made it to the Hall of Fame. Not the big one, the Reds Hall of Fame. Meh.
He is absolutely 100 percent a hall of famer and deserves to be included. The main reason rose is not in the hall of fame is because he is not a very likeable guy. If he had charisma and better looks, this whole gambling nonsense would have been overlooked years ago.
They had to change the rules to let him in.
You obviously do not understand how serious MLB has been about gambling for the last 100 years.
My knowledge of baseball is more than the average man and probably way less than yours. Baseball needs to calm down about the gambling thing. The black socks throwing a world series is what started this whole mess. So what a guy has a gambling addiction. He never hurt anyone. I stick by my original post. Pete rose is just not a likeable guy. The gambling thing is what it is.