By that argument, we shouldn’t teach children anything.
Why are Scientology and Mormonism worse than any other religion? Just because they’re newer than Judaism and Christianity?
Shortly after Mormonism was founded, it was probably very much like Scientology. Now, you have a Mormon ready to run for president (with a fair chance of succeeding), hot Mormon girls in bikinis on TV shows (see Solitary 4.0), etc. All of the crazy and creepy stuff has been washed down and “properly interpreted” to be no different than what any other modern day American believes. In a century, Scientology – if it still exists – will be in the same place.
I remember when a “pyramid scheme” was an actual term, with a definition, and people would use it to detnote an actual scheme that fit that definition. It lately seems to devolved into “something that involves money that I don’t like”.
Anyhoo, lots of things contribute nothing to our society, but I don’t really see the need to abolish them. Scientology seems like kinda a crummy deal for people that get involved in it, but their involvement seems to be voluntary, and if they want to spend their money getting initiated in the greater secrets of Ron Hubbard, I don’t really see that as any worse then blowing it at the craps table or spending it on booze.
Yea, it seems kinda suspicious that the more modern a religions founding, the more it seems to outsiders like an obvious fraud. One wonders if Jesus and Buddha weren’t simply the Hubbards of their day, who happened to be fortunate enough to be born before widespread record keeping, news media, etc.
This. Let it mature and it will be just like any other religion. It’s pretty much indistinguishable from the hardcore sects of mainstream religion anyway; RPF doesn’t sound much different from Opus Dei.
Hey, were you riding Light Rail to the Medical Center this morning? I usually ignore the crazies; they’re usually pretty pathetic. But today’s nutcase was a youngish white guy who’d probably had a bit of education, so I answered him back.
Scientology was one of his enemies. He also said God was against all the gays & lesbos; claiming to be a Biblical scholar, he couldn’t quote chapter & verse to support his homophobia. Oh, the OTO & Sandor La Vey were also to be feared. And he had some stuff about The Gold Standard.
Really, he’d obviously surfed some of the more mundane conspiracy sites. (Didn’t have time to ask him about the Bavarian Illuminati; I loved the Illuminatus trilogy but knew it was fiction.) He eventually called me a witch & moved down the car to preach to a new crowd. Especially after I pointed out he was repeating himself. Then he got off, probably to see The Nice Doctor & pick up his new scrip.
I think the Scientologists should be charged with any crimes they’ve committed & get lots more negative publicity. They mostly prey on the weak minded who have too much money. (Hey, maybe Crazy Guy ran out of money before he Got Clear!)
Many former students of parochial schools would disagree.
This is out of bounds for Great Debates. The OP doesn’t say he’s being oppressed or hunted by Scientology, much less by fictional conspiracies, and calling him mentally ill and delusional is unacceptable. Don’t do it in this forum.
Gonzo, you and I don’t agree on much. But on this, we are reading from the same page.
I don’t think the time-out corner counts.
All religions are scams.
No; by that argument, we shouldn’t teach children blatant lies. Which religion is. It’s the difference between teaching them that George Washington was the first President of the United States, and teaching them that George Washington had heat vision and could heal the sick by sprinkling plutonium on them.
True, but I can see why someone would call Scientology or religion in general a pyramid scheme; they seem pretty close in concept. The biggest difference being that belief isn’t an exhaustible resource like money, so the “pyramid” is sustainable once it runs out of people it can convert instead of needing constant expansion to continue existing.
The OP reads like a member of Anonymous looking for recruits for Project Chanology.
That simplifies everything because everyone agrees on what’s a lie and what isn’t. I don’t want to be put in the position of defending teaching religion to children because I didn’t like growing up with that and I don’t plan to do it myself; I think I’m more troubled by the assertion that children can handle it. Can we teach children politics or history? Because both of those are awfully debatable, too. Can their minds handle that?
I can’t see the difference between Scientology and other religions. I assume Scientology isn’t actually breaking down doors and forcing people to join. It hasn’t been around long enough to get converts the old fashioned way: giving birth and then indoctrinating.
Add in “extorts money under threat of eternal suffering” and “spreads hate for outsiders” to Scientology and you have a nice mainstream religion there.
I disagree strongly. Ignoring religion and not teaching kids about it is both impractical and wrong.
The aim ought to be to provide, to the extent possible, factual information about religions. It’s a part of the culture, so you can’t simply ignore it. What I attempt to do with my own kid is to teach him the stories and mythology behind various religions he encounters, the meanings of the holidays, etc. I don’t make value judgments about it, though when he asks about whether stuff he’s heard about things like heaven and God are real I tell him straight out I personally think these are just stories that a lot of people believe in.
Fail to teach children about religion, and the teaching will be done by others.
This version is so much more awesome though!! Imagine the heroic stories of the Revolutionary War, with our hero George Washington blasting the redcoats with his laser eyes!
To the OP, to the extent Scientology breaks the law (and they do, sometimes) they should be prosecuted under the laws already on the books. Other then that, I think they should be left alone by the government. As far as citizen action, I think the work being done is noble and I support it. You should join the effort or donate, if it is so important to you.
Bullshit. It’s one thing to threaten someone with eternal suffering; it’s another to actually use the court system to make their life legal hell. Which mainstream religion makes a common practice of fucking suing people that denounce it or try to leave it?
Ok, but not all are scams in the sense of having the purpose of seperating people from their money by blackmailing them.
The Inquisition used the rack and Islam proscribes death for apostates. I’d rather be sued. I don’t know how often Scientology sues members who leave the fold, but I know they practice shunning, and a bunch of religious groups do that.
And I’d rather somebody hit me in the head than shoot me, but that won’t stop me from bitching about the guy that hit me. Also, if I had been around back when those other religions were doing those awful things, I’d be doing my best to put a stop to them, too. Scientology has a lot to answer for in the very recent past and in the present.
I didn’t say he couldn’t bitch or that Scientology doesn’t have a lot to answer for. It does. But Argent Towers is asking if the federal government should destroy Scientology. That’s an extreme solution, so it needs to be justified by demonstrating there is an extreme problem. Saying that Scientology is very greedy and lawsuit-happy - while completely true - does not meet that threshold. Lots of people are greedy and lawsuit-happy, and Scientology may do all it can to stop people from leaving, but it doesn’t force them to join. Its members should continue to be prosecuted when they break the law, but if (for example) racist hate groups are Constitutionally protected, then you can’t tell me Scientology isn’t allowed to bilk money from gullible dumbass celebrities. It’s very similar to “real” religions but a little worse. I don’t think means the government should destroy the organization because it’s not worth the Constitutional trouble.