The best defense? tell them you’re dead. I got my Grandmothers phone # when she died 5 years ago and I STILL get phone calls for her. I usually put the phone down after I say no and most of them keep talking. That worked after a few months, but since I moved they have started up again. It’s funny when they think you’re new to the area and I’ve lived here for almost 30 years! dorks.
I also wanted to buy lawn service and new siding for my condo but I just didn’t have the heart.
Now some of the stores want my phone number as well! I tell them no way. I should make one up.
What about telemarketing to cell phone’s where you have to pay for your time? I haven’t gotten any of these yet, but I fear they are coming. My brother claims to have recieved a few.
So far my method of dealing with telemarketers has worked great. I don’t use my home phone for any incoming calls. I very rearely use it for anything except internet access. There is no ringer on the phone and no voice mail. If someone wants to reach me, they call my cell phone or office phone. As I don’t talk that much on the phone anyway, I still don’t go over my monthly allotment of free time on the cell phone (400 minutes). I haven’t spoken to a telemarketer in months and it has actually saved me money (I pay less for the cell phone than I used to pay for long distance. LD is the same as regular time on the cell. Also, my voice mail is free with the cell.).
As far as making it illegal, I say don’t bother. I think that the world is learning to deal with it. There has been some problems with the victimization of the elderly etc. but I think that they are being worked out gradually. Let’s not put a law on the books that will be obsolete in 5 years.
(sigh) Actually I think you are making my point for me. What the above passage essentially says is: “anything other than ‘put me on your do not call list’ means ‘call me again’”, even if I otherwise said “No, no, a thousand times no”, call the telemarketer the offspring of a serpent and a goat, hang up on him/her, etc. Furthermore, saying the correct phrase only takes you off the call list of that particular telemarketer. I say again, why is the burden on me to go through all this rigamarole, when I didn’t ask for the call in the first place?
Scylla:
I’d appreciate a link to the specific PA law, if you happen to know of one.
BTW, I’ve reviewed the info at Junkbusters, and the idea of fines for repeat offenders is all well and good, but once again, the burden is on the consumer to initiate litigation, i.e. yet more hassle, and like all litigation, the outcome is not guaranteed. Respectfully, that $10K award is not a given.
In the end, what most people seem to object to is the hassle involved in dealing with telemarketers, and IMO the best way to end that hassle is to ban it entirely, or at least establish a national “do not call” database.
BTW, according to Junkbusters, the Telephone Consumer Protection Act of '91 includes a provision for such a database, but the FCC elected not to pursue it.
If you could only show us how they intrude on your privacy.
**
I don’t know what the big deal is. I simply say “I’m not interested” and I hang up on them.
**
Well one sure way to stop these things is to get rid of the phone. But since that isn’t a very good solution you’ll probably just go on the rest of your life getting a few calls. We used to get 2-3 calls a day after we purchased a home but after a while it went down to 2-3 a week. I really don’t understand what the big deal is.
**
Should I be fined for dialing the wrong number? After all I’m making a call that the person might not want.
Or we can just skip all those extra rules, regulations, and laws and let people be responsible for themselves. If telemarketers really worry you this much I hate to see how you’d handle a serious problem.
I don’t like conservatives. They violate my privacy with ideological trash. They are pestering and annoying. The ones in Washington even take my money and do very bad things with it. They defraud old people mercilessly.
I think we should make conservatives illegal, too.
I used to get roughly 5-10 telemarketing calls a day. Aside from the annoyance of geting up that many times to answer the phone, it really ticks me off to be called to purchase a product I don’t need or want.
Like one of the other posters here, I’ve recently stopped answering the phone period with 000 and unavailable calls. To make sure I ge the important ones, Ive contacted my billing offices and let them know I do not accept calls placed like that. ATT had no problem with this, the same for my CC companies. Recently I think the number of those types of calls has dropped to 1-2 a day. Non repsonsiveness seems to work.
MGibson, I think you mischaracterize my comments a tad.
I’m afraid we are crossing paths here somehow. Maybe we can flesh out a definitional misunderstanding. If I am at home, and my phone rings, and it is someone trying to sell me something, I consider that a violation of my privacy.
You disagree? What level of privacy do you expect at home? What constitutes an intrusion on that expectation? And who should be the person who gets to set those parameters, you, or someone trying to make a buck? I did not say it was a huge annoyance, but I do consider it an annoyance nonetheless.
Don’t think I ever said it was a “big deal.” What I object to is Mr2001’s position that I should have to bear his intrusions, and I should have to take the steps to minimize such intrusions, utter magic words or else he will intentionally harrass me, etc. I was also making what I thought was a reasonable proposal in response to the OP, in the hopes of focussing and continuing a reasonable discussion, rather than just restating the positions previously set out in the Pit. Don’t think your post takes issue with any elements of my proposal, other than to say we should “be responsible for ourselves.” Again, feel free to respond to my statements, but please don’t mischaracterize them to suit your purposes.
Again with the “big deal.” Mr2001 is clearly presenting a point of view. I believe he is inconsistent and unclear in the terms he is using. I asked him to clarify. You did not do so other than to indicate that you personally do not consider 2-3 calls/week “a big deal”. Fine. I probably agree with you. I will remember that definition should we discuss this further.
Do you seriously believe this is a fair response to what anyone opposing telemarketing has suggested. This silliness merits no further response.
Yeah. That’s the ticket. Let’s make it personal here. You added a lot to the debate.
Attrayant and RoboDude, the First Amendment does apply to commercial speech, although such speech is subject to greater regulation than non-commercial speech (which need not refer to the government to be protected) - see below.
Attrayant said:
The First Amendment doesn’t apply to private entities, which is why Verizon can fire you. The government cannot pass a law prohibiting you from making that statement.
The Supreme Court has stated:
*City of Cincinnati v. Discovery Network, Inc., *, 507 U.S. 410, 426 (1993). (Emphasis added, citations omitted.)
Telemarketing gives fairly unskilled people a job that has flexible hours and scheduling, and not a whole lot of training.
If you piss someone off, then they will get revenge. A company has to take you off the list if you ask, and a fast food joint worker can’t spit in your food. Call a low paid employee a worthless piece of shit, and see how often these illegal things will happen, courtesy is courtesy.
Its amazing how many people bitch about this intrusion into their privacy, then send their kid around the neigborhood, and walk around the office trying to sell Girl Scout cookies.
Bobby_Drake2, our company name actually does show up on our caller ID. I believe I’ve seen it from other companies as well.
stofsky:
If there’s some matter that needs your immediate attention, you don’t think they’ll try to contact you by phone?
Someone you don’t like giving you a phone call is harrassment? Maybe if he’s threatening you or calls you at obscene hours or after you’ve told him to stop.
No one has disputed that.
Dinsdale:
Stopping telemarketers - Tell them to take you off the list, put you on the do not call list, or whatever.
Yes, this only stops that one company, and only for a certain amount of time. But do it to everyone and the number of calls will drop off quickly. Believe it or not, telemarketers are in the business of making sales, not harrassing people.
Minimizing them - Listen to the offer, decide whether you want it, and say no if you don’t. You’ll only get a call once per campaign.
Avoiding them - Screen your calls with an answering machine.
It’s already a law. File a claim or take them to court or whatever you’re supposed to do to get the money out of them.
A wrong number is certainly an unsolicited call. Where do you draw the line for unsolicited calls that should be illegal, on the continuum of:
[ul]
[li]asking you to buy a product or service[/li][li]asking you to contribute to a charity[/li][li]asking if you have something to donate (coats, toys, etc.)[/li][li]asking you to come to a free event[/li][li]reminding you about an appointment or obligation[/li][li]someone you know giving you a (non-harrassing) call you didn’t expect and don’t want (“it’s bob from next door, keep your damn dog out of my hedges!”)[/li][li]someone you know giving you call you didn’t expect but it doesn’t bother you[/li][li]warning you of an emergency[/li][/ul]
VileOrb:
Illegal. We wouldn’t do it anyway because no one wants to buy anything over the cell phone. Perhaps he set his home phone to forward to his cell phone.
I actually did telemarketing for a while - I sold tickets to a charity event a couple of times, and I sold burglar alarms for a while. Always hated it, felt terribly guilty about having to bother people like that, but hey, I needed the money.
No telemarketer (or no sane one who has been doing it more than a day or so) is going to mind in the least if you hang up right as they begin their pitch. We can move on to the next call.
Me and my coworkers never minded getting a customer who cursed at us and called us names. It broke the monotony, and we would get a laugh out of it (‘Hey, this old lady called me an assfucker!’).
What did get frustrating was when they would let us get through the whole script and then say they weren’t interested. At one job with a particularly long script, I deliberately worked in several pauses to give the customer an opportunity to say ‘Not interested’ or just hang up (BTW, cursing people and even hang-ups are fairly uncommon, maybe one in 50 will just hang up on you, and you got cussed at maybe once a week).
My Dad used to do that, to waste their time. He would let them get through the script, then ask questions, hem and haw, say he had to go talk to his wife, leave the phone on the table a few minutes, then say he decided against it. But we realized at one point as his mental condition deteriorated that he wasn’t keeping them on the phone because of his mean sense of humor - he was actually listening to them and taking them up on their offers. It’s really sad to have to eavesdrop on your Dad when he answers the phone to make sure he doesn’t get ripped off.
The Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 (TCPA) allows you to tell the company to put you on the “do not call list”. This is federal law.
If they call back in one year you can sue them in court for up to $500 for each call you received after you requested to be placed on the “do not call list”.
Ok, actually its “actual monetary loss” or up to $500, whichever is greater.
If the court finds that the marketer willfully broke the law, the penalty is tripled.
The catch is that you (probably) have to keep a telephone log next to your phone. I did this, was careful to ask to have my name removed from telephone lists… and never got called twice by the same organization in the same year.
(Curses, foiled again!)
Note: Sometimes when I ask them to take my name off their list, I am told that the company may have more than one telemarketer. I respond that the court case might prove interesting. (Then I get to speak with a manager.) From the website below, it appears that the existence of multiple telemarketers are irrelevant: what matters is whether a call was placed by * or on behalf of * the same company in a given year.
I’d vote for any of the restrictions Dinsdale mentioned. Preferably all of them. I’m very tired of telemarketers, who will tell me that it takes “up to six weeks” before my number is put on the “do not call” list. And even then, some of them don’t seem to realize that they’re required to keep such a list. Neither do their supervisors. I am also tired of telling each telemarketer the same tired phrase, and then asking to speak to a supervisor, as they cannot seem to grasp this concept.
The first three, definitely, if I haven’t indicated that I WANT to be included on a calling list. By this, I mean if I put my name and number on a list that says “Do you want us to call you when we (have a sale/need your contribution)?” This does NOT mean that if I put my name and number into a drawing, I want to be put on a phone solicitation list. If it’s a random call asking me to come to a free event, that should be illegal too. As for appointments…depends, again, whether I’ve given my permission. For instance, I used to get routine follow up calls from my doctor’s office. I told them to quit doing that, that I’ll call if I have further problems. If my test results are bad, of course I want them to call me and they understand that, but if the results are routine, and don’t need to be discussed before my next visit, I don’t want a call. As for obligation, I’m not sure exactly what you mean by this. Obligated to give blood? Obligated to donate to charity? No, that shouldn’t be legal, unless I’ve indicated that I want a reminder.
By the way, my family and I used to regularly donate a tidy sum to public television here…until they started phoning us, and kept phoning us even after we told them to put us on the don’t call list. Eventually, they quit calling, but they lost our donation money FOREVER.
As a matter of fact, I DO say the magic words. However, this doesn’t mean that I get taken off the calling list immediately. I also have NO option to say these words when I get a telemarketing RECORDING, which doesn’t give me an option to say the words. And new telemarketing companies start up every day. And old lists get recycled. I don’t see why the burden is on ME to inform every single telemarketing company that I don’t wish to be on their calling list.
Granted, I have a few unusual circumstances. First of all, I sleep during the day, as does my husband. We both work nights. I’m not in good health, it’s hard for me to sleep. An unwanted call, even if I let the machine pick it up, disrupts my sleep. I can’t turn off the ringer in my bedroom, as I might get an emergency call. I can’t just let the answering machine pick up the call, either, for the same reason. For reasons that I won’t go into here, I MUST answer the phone for emergencies. However, even if I slept at night, I still wouldn’t want telemarketers calling me.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr2001 *
Where do you draw the line for unsolicited calls that should be illegal, on the continuum of:
[ul]
[li]asking you to buy a product or service[/li][li]asking you to contribute to a charity[/li][li]asking if you have something to donate (coats, toys, etc.)[/li][li]asking you to come to a free event[/li][li]reminding you about an appointment or obligation[/li][li]someone you know giving you a (non-harrassing) call you didn’t expect and don’t want (“it’s bob from next door, keep your damn dog out of my hedges!”)[/li][li]someone you know giving you call you didn’t expect but it doesn’t bother you[/li][li]warning you of an emergency[/li][/ul]
I’m pretty close with Lynn (and not just to butter up a mod. Anyway, I suspect corn oil would be more fun!) Certainly the first three, and most likely the fourth. After all, how many times have you been told you won something absolutely free … But are you serious that you cannot see a distinction between someone making a series of phone calls to people with whom they have no pre-existing relationship, calling me for no other reason than I have a phone (and presumably they have other reasons for believing I fall within their target demographic), as opposed to someone “reminding you about an appointment or obligation”, or an isolated call from my neighbor, whether pleasant or not? Please explain to me why you do not see a significant distinction here.
Mr2001, neither you nor anyone else have addressed my databank proposal. Nor have you attempted to explain why YOU should be able to determine what level of intrusion I must bear in my home, and why I must bear the cost of minimizing that intrusion.
It is very convenient for you to glibly recommend that I “File a claim or take them to court or whatever you’re supposed to do to get the money out of them.” I’m not sure what your schedule is like, but it is enough of an annoyance that I have to answer the unwanted calls in the first place. I have never said it is a huge annoyance, but I readily acknowledge that I would prefer to never again get a telephone solicitation call. If you recall from my posts in the Pit thread, I said I now decline and hang up quickly without getting angry. So don’t attempt to paint me or the others who share my view as unreasonable reactionaries. But, I have enough going on in my life that I am not about to keep a log near my phone, try to pry info out of solicitors, take whatever follow up is necessary for what I anticipate would be minimal dollar reward. I am fortunate enough that a few hundred dollars would not be worth my taking on this crusade.
But if you do not understand that I and others resent that in your pursuit of profit you are imposing unnecessary costs upon us, I don’t know what more I can say to explain it.
Final point, you are a little inconsistent in the image you present Mr2001. You say your company’s name and # show up on caller ID. That’s great! But you must realize that that is not universal in your industry. And I am sorry, but you do get tarred by the same brush applicable to the comapny you keep. And I believe that you are not involved in scams, and that you truly believe in the value of what you are offering. Again, good for you!
But then you describe actions which sound suspiciously like harassment - phone pranks I would expect of a teenager. And at times you suggest a degree of credulousness inconsistent with other of your remarks. You truly believe a polite excuse is something other than a request that you leave them alone? And I suggest that the mere fact that you may succeed in making sales to people who initially turn you down says more about your perserverance and their inability to say no, than a true desire to purchase your bill of goods.
Lynn: Read my post above and see the link. If they say that it takes 6 weeks to take you off the list, fine. But if they call you again, take them to small claims court and win up to $500. Just be sure to keep a log. Don’t bother with supervisors. Say the magic words, “Please take me off your telephone list”, jot the time, date and company down, and hope they call you back within a year.
I do disagree that it is a violation of privacy. And I seriously doubt that any court would agree that it is a violation of your privacy. I expect calls from salesman from time to time even if I don’t look forward to them.
**
Just as silly as believing that a telemarketer is violating your privacy. So yes in this case I think it is a fair response.
Yeah. That’s the ticket. Let’s make it personal here. You added a lot to the debate.
**
[/QUOTE]
That last remark from me was not meant to be mean spirited. I apologize.
Hmmm, not necessarily outlawed, but regulatory hamstringing is definitely in order.
I’ve seen a couple of posts by telemarketers who complained about people who make them go through the whole speil before saying, I’m not interested, and hanging up.
You wouldn’t happen to be the guy that called me and said you wanted to give me a free watch, and a couple of free magazine subscriptions, and then asked me to pick a couple more magazines to subscribe to, took my whole order, and then told me the subscription price of the magazines (you’ll be billed twenty-four dollars a month for the next three months).
Waited until the end of the spiel to tell me that the paid subscriptions (which I had been led to believe would also be free) were a condition of getting the watch and the free magazines. So I had to talk to your supervisor to get the order cancelled. This whole process took nearly a half hour, as the telemarketer listed available magazines, made more “free” offers, schmoozed me by telling me he used to live in Vegas, too, etc…
I’ve gotten similar calls in the past, before I got hip to telemarketers, in which I would be offered several magazine subscriptions for $3 a month, which sounded OK, until they got to the end and told me they wanted the money in a lump sum- something like $74 in one case. Led me to believe that I would be paying in installments until after they got my order. Then told me they would be sending someone out the next day to get the money. At the time, I couldn’t come up with $74 in a lump sum and still eat for the next week. I thought about it and wasn’t home the next day. Yeah, yeah, but they should have been straight with me at the beginning of the call.
Deceptive telemarketing practices like this should definitely be outlawed. I wonder how many elderly or mentally handicapped people get hooked this way, believing they are getting a free gift, when they are actually being sold a bill of goods.
I see a distinction, of course, but not a clear-cut one; there are an infinite number of situations in between. Suppose you (as someone who doesn’t know me) drive past my house and see that my basketball hoop is a rusty unusable mess. You happen to have a brand-new basketball hoop wasting space in a box in your garage, so you look up my phone number, call me, and offer to give it to me.
Now suppose that instead of offering to give it away, you offer to sell it for an attractive price.
Finally, suppose that you see several other houses on my block in the same condition, so you write them all down and call each house.
I see each of these situations as being increasingly close to professional telemarketing, but I don’t see any drastic differences. I wouldn’t outlaw any of these, so I wouldn’t outlaw telemarketing.
Here’s mine:
[ul]
[li]The bank keeps a list of numbers by category. Numbers that aren’t in the list are assumed to be “residential”. Business numbers are marked as “business” either by the owner’s request or by notification from the phone company.[/li][li]A nominal fee (~$5.00) is charged to mark all lines in the same house as “never call”, and the owner can choose which categories of marketers to exclude, such as for-profit corporations, charities, or non-profit organizations. All other funding for the bank comes from the industry in the form of annual license fees.[/li][li]As an alternative to the above, an owner may choose a single line to receive calls if he has more than one line. This is free as long as the line is answered by a person.[/li][li]A number expires from the list after 5 years, or when the line is no longer owned by that person.[/li][/ul]
I disagree with an “opt-in” system, and with placing the entire burden on the industry.
I don’t consider answering the phone any more of a cost than sitting through a commercial on TV. Most viewers would probably agree that they dislike commercials, but their desires have to be weighed against those of business owners who wish to advertise.
I just looked back through this thread and the Pit thread, and I’m still not sure what you’re referring to here.
Are you suggesting that every time someone says “I’m eating dinner” or “I have company over” or “I’m on my way to work”, I should assume they’re lying?
Certainly some people make excuses in an attempt to get me off the phone. I just don’t think it’s my responsibility to guess at what someone really means by “I’m busy right now”.
If they don’t want to buy something, they have many chances to turn me down. In fact, we have staff who spend all day verifying our sales after we make them, with no pressure whatsoever.
When I’m pitching someone, I respond based on what they say to me. If I ask for a large contribution and they say “that’s too much for me”, I ask for a smaller one. That’s what perseverance means in my job. If they don’t really mean “that’s too much”, they shouldn’t be saying it.
You seem to believe that there are hordes of people who are unable to speak their mind on the phone. I disagree because I talk to people all day who have no trouble doing just that.
Mr2001, I’d like to ask a few questions and would appreciate your thoughts:
You have stated very clearly your position in favor of current telemarketing practices. If there is no problem with the industry, why, in your opinion, have the majority of the posters to the recent telemarketing threads been so negative in their opinions of the practice?
a) Do you sincerely believe that when someone says, “I’m eating dinner” or “I have company over” or “I’m on my way to work”, they mean “please call back at another time”? b) In your opinion, does the phrase “I’m not interested” mean “keep talking until I become interested”?
you’ve hinted in previous posts that the telemarketing outfit you work for makes calls on behalf of various charitable organizations. a) Is this correct?
b) If so, what’s the split of the proceeds, on average, between the telemarketer you work for and the charity?
