Should the Star Trek movie franchise call it quits?

From the IMDb daily poll for 8/7:

Should the Star Trek movie franchise call it quits?

I say no way! They could keep the movies going forever if they just rethought the creative side a little.

They should have stopped after 6 if you ask me.

where would they go now? DS9/TNG/voyager crossover? they used up their best idea with first contact. insurrection sucked, nemesis wasnt bad. bring back some borg, but IMHO theyve done all they can with that.

more jem hadar war type thing would be alright.

otherwise, yeah leave it alone now.
IMHO trekkies

“Just rethought the creative side” is a heck of a big thing. If they’d just rethought the creative side, “Gigli” could have been a good movie.

I think franchise movies have to be taken individually. There’s nothing about the Star Trek universe that necessitates another movie or prevents another movie, so the issue is whether or not you have a good idea to wrap the movie around. The last two Star Trek films were boring and dreadful mainly because they had a lot of Star Trek and very little film. There just wasn’t a lot of though put into them; boring rent-a-villians and similar plots.

The only really, really good Star Trek flick, “The Wrath of Khan,” was good mainly because it was written and directed by a guy who’d never had anything to do with Star Trek and had not even watched the original show. He created a MOVIE first, with the Star Trek characters and flavour added on, rather than the other way around. Note that they did so even while maintaining a link to the old series, in Khan himself. (The Next Generation movies, on the other hand, have totally ignored the key supporting characters in the original series - Q, Lwaxana Troi, Alexander, Vash, Wesley, etc., save a few Guinan cameos. Why?) “Wrath of Khan” is much more violent, dark, and action-based than the other films because it succeeds on its own logic rather than bending to the Star Trek movie format.

So if you wanted to make another Star Trek film I think you need to ask someone new to do it. Give a team of people totally unconnected with the franchise the creative freedom to take the movie in a new direction. Using the base characters, allow a new movie to stand on its own story and logic.

For that matter “Star Wars” needs the same thing; the last two movies were pure formula and plot, just unbelievably boring dreck following the same stale pattern. I would much rather see some new director do a “Knights of the Old Republic” movie - what does it tell you that a video game has a much better and more interesting story than the movies - than watch George Lucas do Episode III.

You’ve got a point about the story in general, although IMDb says the producer (who decided to use Khan) watched every single episode of the series in order to choose the right villain, and the director was not the only writer (in fact, he was uncredited as a writer). I’m not sure what the author of the screenplay did for research.

They should take a break and actually try “to seek out” new ideas.(*) Not simply crank them out “just because”. And if that means introducing new and different storylines, or new and different recurring characters and players, so be it.

(*Or at least flush out some old tired ones, e.g.: “for our next script, (a) nobody reverses polarities or reroutes channels on ANYTHING, (b) no Klingon will mention ‘honor’, © we will actually go where noone has EVER gone before, (d) the ship stays intact, (e) NOBODY tries, wants, has or cares to find out what it is to have human feelings, (f)…”).

“Creative renewal” is tricky if you have to depend on (a) pretending (only pretending… and faintly a best) to follow one of the TV continuities, AND (b) the formula requirement that it all be centered around “[insert name of one of the Captains] in command, facing a crisis” .

The IMDB poll is flawed by tying in the “creative renewal” option with the bringing in of the casts from the “other versions”. One does not have to require the other.

Well, James Bond is on, what, the 18th or so? Why should Trek quit?

But, some new characters would be cool. Why stick with characters from the TV shows? Create some new ones! Many of the plot ideas from Trek Dopers threads over the past year could be fleshed out into a movie.

I think the biggest problem is the Braga/Berman quagmire. The franchise really does need some new blood.

and bloodletting! Yar!!

Advice to Paramount: Don’t do anything until you have a good script–no, a GREAT script. Period. It’s not going to be worth your time and money. The movies haven’t had a good script since VI, with First Contact being hobbled by the subtraction of Guinan and the addition of the Guinan-lite ancient earth woman whose name I have forgotten. And after the debacle that was Nemisis, the Next Gen storylines are so screwed up that I don’t know where to go with it next. But for a nominal fee, I will do my best to figure something out!

I assume you mean Alfre Woodard.

I’m pretty sure all of those, except maybe (c), happened in the last movie and it seems most people here didn’t like it. And I think all of them except (e) happened in Insurrection, and nobody liked that either. :stuck_out_tongue:

I still dream of a good Deep Space Nine movie. One day…

Let’s see, Marley… in “Nemesis”, W. mentions honor, the ship is wrecked by a deliberate ramming, Shinzon struggles with his emotional identity, and I’ll get back at ya as to specific technobulldada solutions to problems. So they really should try it :wink:

That’s more or less what they did with Nemesis, wasn’t it? And we know how that turned out.

I think Marley23 hit the nail on the head. Nicholas Meyer was a newcomer to Star Trek when he was selected to direct STII, but he immersed himself in the series before starting to film. Stuart Baird, director of Nemesis, did not- if I recall correctly, he was actually infuriatingly ignorant about Trek even on set. As a result, we get a Star Trek film that doesn’t even feel like Star Trek, much less adhere to any sort of continuity.

Err… I don’t remember that character being anything like Guinan, aside from being black. If anything, she was more like Tasha Yar- a fighting spirit with a willingness to stand up to anyone, even Picard.

But then, I enjoyed First Contact- in fact, it’s my third favorite Trek film, after Wrath of Khan and The Voyage Home.

As I recall, the Enterprise detects Data’s little clone via “positronic waves” from several light-years away. Is that treknobabbly enough? :slight_smile:

That “Moby Dick” speech was right out of Guinan’s playbook. She was in the original script, but Whoopie declined to be in the movie, so they had to create a new character to deliver that speech. As a result, they had to waste time introducing her and invent a contrived way for her to be on board the Big E at the right time to castigate Picard. It seriously screwed up an otherwise decent movie for me.

IMHO, the best Star Trek movie was actually “All Good Things…”

I believe that it’s much harder than people seem to think it is to write a good story. Yes, I agree that they should hold off until they have a killer story. However, statements such as “Just use new characters and it’ll be good!” or “Don’t use any clichés and it’ll be good!” or “Use a new writer and it’ll be good!” or “Use this idea I came up with and it’ll be good!” are way too simplistic. It’s not some single plot element or device or setting that determines whether a story is good - it’s how much talent the storywriter has. And it takes a heck of a lot.

It would be pretty hard to make a DS9 movie. The characters are pretty well dispersed. Sisko is dead (kinda), Odo and Garrak have gone back to their homeworlds, and Worf is back on the Enterpriese. Basically you’ve got Quark, Dr. Bashir, O’Brian, that last Dax girl (that noone seems to care much about), and the Bitch Queen–er, Kira.
I’ve got an idea for a NextGen movie. Actually, it’s a combination NextGen/Voyager movie. The Enterprise arrives at Starfleet’s Central Research Station. This is where Starfleet tests all of it’s really advanced stuff. (Remember all of those times that the Enterprise crew made some major discovery, and then you never heard of it again? Well, it’s all here, sitting on a shelf and gathering dust due to well-intentioned but misguided rules about the dispersal of alien technology.) The Enterprise is here to drop off B4, who according to the rules must undergo an extensive examination.

They find Voyager is at this station. They are testing the transwarp drive and ablative armor. Tuvok is the captain, and Seven of Nine is the engineer. The Holographic Doctor is also here. It turns out that they have created dozens of mobile emittors, and they are experimenting with using holograms to replace living crews. Naturally, the Enterprise guys don’t care for this idea one little bit, but there’s really nothing they can do about it, so they say goodbye to B4 and leave.

Later, B4 is wandering thru a storage room and finds Lore’s disassembled components. Not knowing any better, he puts Lore back together. Lore convinces B4 that organic lifeorms are all evil, and then the two of them reprogram the holographic crewmen to do Lore’s bidding. They take over the space station, and lots of people get tortured and killed and stuff. Someone (probably Seven of Nine) escapes and calls the Enterprise for help. The Enterprise comes back and tries to stop Lore and B4. Lore moves his crew to Voyager and destroys the space station. Somehow, Tuvok dies. The Enterprise then engages Voyager in battle.

Thanks to the ablative armor, Voyager kicks the Enterprise’s butt. However, with Seven of Nine’s help they manage to penetrate the armor, and eventually both ships are pretty well crippled. The Enterprise guys beam over and there’s alot of action as they fight the holographic crewmen. Eventually, they manage to convince B4 that what he’s doing is wrong, and he helps them to set Voyager to self-destruct. For some reason, B4 has to stay behind. Picard gives him the mobile transporter unit thingy so he can escape before the ship explodes.

After Picard and company beam back to the Enterprise, B4 takes a look at the device, and surprisingly he throws it away! Instead of escaping, he goes and finds Lore. He then gives his “brother” a big hug just as Voyages explodes.

Ach…, I wasn’t being simplistic. I was being breif. A search of previous Trek story threads over the past year will pull up a lot of very good ideas, some bare bones, some almost ready for filming.

Even the most fleshed out and ready to film screen play has to start out with an idea. Doesn’t mean it’s simplistic. It’s just not finished yet.

You know I likes ye, I just be like’n to argue… yar…

I’m currently looking for news about a possibly false rumor I heard: A Firefly movie!

See, this is what I’m talking about. All of these points are either extremely contrived the way you have them, or are so vague and unexplained that you’d have trouble coming up with a reason for them that wasn’t extremely contrived. I’m not saying you don’t have any good ideas, but this takes a lot of work.

Fair enough. I’ll probably have to read some of them. But what I’m saying is that a good idea isn’t the hard part. In fact, I’m not even sure a good idea is important. Am I the only one who thought the idea behind Star Trek IV was really dumb?

But, Captain Jonathon Achernar is correct in stating that a screenplay is a fairly hard thing to do. First, one must have a complete(ish) story, then one has to adapt it to stage or screen. This involves actions, sets, effects…

That’s why ol’ Roddenberry had a Writer’s Guide or Bible complete with background infromation on some characters, places, events, yada yada… A lot of thought and work has to go into a completed project.

Which is why it amazes me that some really crappy stuff continues to see the light of day.
On a side note, I was talking to a friend who worked on some Trek stuff and she mentioned a rumor around the job that the beginning idea for TVH was the scene where the Enterprise crew is standing on the streets of San Fransisco and no one passing by thought it was odd. Kind of a joke, supposedly made while in a bar. Then, it ballooned out into the light hearted romp that is* Kirk and the Mighty Whales*. May be apochryphal, but it’s fun to think about.

Well for one, I would like to see a movie made about the Bitch Queen, especially the Alternate Universe version. :slight_smile:

Having killed off all the Makui(sp) they also killed off a great alternate movie/series that could include the Federation and its woes, plus have a cast of rule breakers and misfits.