Should young children be taught about racism (Black History day)?

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Chen019

To balance it out you could refer her to this talk on a Marae discussing Pakeha (NZ european) whakapapa (ancestry).

I think I speak for everyone when I say, “what the fuck are you talking about?”

[solosam]

That said, recently when I was giving a standardized test to some third-graders, I was heartened to see how many of them had no idea what to put under “race” on the form. One white girl from Hawaii wanted to check the Hawaiian/Pacific Islander box; an Asian kid wanted to check American Indian for who knows what reason; a black girl had no idea what the question even meant. So maybe things are getting better.

The hypocrisy of this is great. They tell kids that race doesn’t matter and we’re all the same, and then the very next day ask them to self-identify by racial group.

[Starving_Artist]

And then of course they grow up thinking there is such a thing as race, whereupon they’ll be confused by liberals calling everyone racists while at the same time loftily declaring there is no such thing as race.

What’s a poor kid to believe?

[Quartz]

@Dangerosa

and being white I know that I’ll NEVER understand racism the same way a person of color does.

All you need to do is to try to live and work in a country where the ruling ethnicity is not white, and not be retired or live in a white enclave. Try pretty much anywhere in Asia or sub-Saharan Africa.

The Arabs treat the Pakistani workers like shit. The Malays treat the Filipino workers like shit; whites are second-class, Filipinos dirt-class in Brunei. ‘No whites’ signs are seen in Japan, and the Ainu are second-class citizens, ditto those Japanese with Chinese or Korean ancestry, and the Japanese as a whole still aren’t popular in the rest of Asia. The Tutsi and Hutu hate each other, etc.

‘White privilege’ can only exist where whites rule.

[Dangerosa]

@Quartz

All you need to do is to try to live and work in a country where the ruling ethnicity is not white, and not be retired or live in a white enclave. Try pretty much anywhere in Asia or sub-Saharan Africa.

The Arabs treat the Pakistani workers like shit. The Malays treat the Filipino workers like shit; whites are second-class, Filipinos dirt-class in Brunei. ‘No whites’ signs are seen in Japan, and the Ainu are second-class citizens, ditto those Japanese with Chinese or Korean ancestry, and the Japanese as a whole still aren’t popular in the rest of Asia. The Tutsi and Hutu hate each other, etc.

‘White privilege’ can only exist where whites rule.

I still won’t get it. I didn’t grow up with it as affecting me. It isn’t part of my history. It isn’t something where I think about the perception I give people as a person of color as second nature. I could move to Japan and be treated like a second class citizen because I’m white - but it isn’t my home and I have the easy freedom to leave.

[Chen019]

@tomndebb

We do not teach about Arab slaving for the same reasons that we do not teach about the rise and fall of the Abayassids or the Turks, (or, frankly, the Mings, etc.). Their stories do not progress in a straight line to the European settlement of North America and so get treated rather sketchily or are ignored.

As to the slavery of Africa before the intervention of Arabs and Europeans: we also do not talk about intra-European slavery that lasted from pre-Roman times right up until the early Renaissance. It was a different type of slavery and, while we should probably let kids know more about it, it does not have a direct bearing on the trans-Atlantic slave trade.

As to Africans capturing Africans for sale to Europeans, that does get mentioned, depending on the level at which one is teaching. It was, after all, the power and wealth that those slave takers amassed that led to much of the early colonial disruption of Africa. (And there is always some guy with a (figurative) white hood in his closet willing to make a big deal about African slave takers if it does not get mentioned loudly enough. Limbaugh and several of his compatriots have gone off on the topic numerous times.)

If a sensitive topic like slavery is going to be taught then it should be done to show that it has been practised through the ages by various groups. Otherwise it’s just propaganda to make one group feel guilty.

[Lamia]

@Quartz

‘No whites’ signs are seen in Japan

Are they? I used to live in Japan and I never saw one, nor was I ever denied entrance to or service at any place of business – and if I were any whiter, I’d glow in the dark.

[tomndebb]

@Chen019

If a sensitive topic like slavery is going to be taught then it should be done to show that it has been practised through the ages by various groups. Otherwise it’s just propaganda to make one group feel guilty.

Piffle.

Slavery has taken any number of forms in many societies and over many years. As a history buff, I would like to see it (and dozens of other topics) treated more thoroughly, but given the constraints of time, it is perfectly understandable that only one variety of slavery tends to be addressed: the one form that has a direct bearing on current North American society, culture, politics, etc.

And, having been immersed in a lot of classes where slavery was taught, both well and poorly, and, on one occasion, by a teacher who actually was interested in promoting guilt, I would have to note that I have never actually felt guilty about it, the number of guilt-promoting teachers I have encountered been miniscule, and the claims that it is taught for the purpose of promoting guilt have been overstated to the point of absurdity.
The one attempt at promoting guilt to which I have been personally exposed was ludicrous in its efforts and was met with a mixture of disdain and laughter. Neither of my kids was ever exposed to a curriculum that promoted feelings of guilt, and the few occasions where I heard of other teachers promoting guilt, they have tendedd to be false claims by alarmist parents, raised on The Song of the South, who did not believe that slaves were not happier before they were freed.

[Chen019]

@tomndebb

Piffle.

Slavery has taken any number of forms in many societies and over many years. As a history buff, I would like to see it (and dozens of other topics) treated more thoroughly, but given the constraints of time, it is perfectly understandable that only one variety of slavery tends to be addressed: the one form that has a direct bearing on current North American society, culture, politics, etc.

That just shows how insular the US is then.

[tomndebb]

@Chen019

That just shows how insular the US is then.

Regardless, your “guilt” claim is nonsense.

[MrDibble]

@Chen019

If a sensitive topic like slavery is going to be taught then it should be done to show that it has been practised through the ages by various groups. Otherwise it’s just propaganda to make one group feel guilty.

In America, one group should feel guilty about slavery.

Other groups should feel guilty about other things. There’s always enough guilt to go around - just ask the Jews and Catholics…

[Shodan]

@MrDibble

In America, one group should feel guilty about slavery.

Sure - slave owners.

Regards,
Shodan

[Bridget_Burke]

@Chen019

If a sensitive topic like slavery is going to be taught then it should be done to show that it has been practised through the ages by various groups. Otherwise it’s just propaganda to make one group feel guilty.

Of course. Slavery should be mentioned in the Ancient History classes. And World History. And the African History class, as well–although some would object to having even one semester devoted to a non-European part of the world. (What about Asian History?)

In American History, the Atlantic Slave Trade is the relevant aspect of the dreadful institution. It should also figure in the Latin American History class–but the same objectors mentioned in my previous paragraph would object once again. I had a couple of years of Texas History; Bronze Age slavery is not the relevant bit there, either…

Taking the largest view, it is certainly important to note that slavery on racial lines alone was not generally the rule as “practised through the ages by various groups.”