Now I’m not the one to call people out very often, this is probably only my 2nd pit thread in 1000+ posts. After all, it’s only a message board and rarely does anyone say anything on here that’s enough to get to me. But you know what? Fuck you handsomeharry. I will kiss Jam Master Jay’s ass and show him the respect he deserves because that man was a pioneer in a young and struggling culture that has now exploded all over the world. I don’t give a fuck if he was in the hole to a thousand different Columbian drug lords. Does that go back and make his music have less of an impact of my life? On the world?
I was in absolute shock last night when I brought up JMJ’s death and my cow-orkers began to say things like “oh he was a rapper so he had it coming to him”:eek: and “I just don’t trust black people, he probably deserved it” :eek: :eek: :eek:
Hip-Hop and the entire music community lost a very important and influential person Wednesday night and I think people should acknowledge that, whether they’re fans of rap music or not. And I especially don’t think people should spout off about how he “deserved it” or he had it coming to him just because he was a rapper (note that he wasn’t even a rapper, he was a DJ). These guys spoke out against drugs and violence. This was a 37 year old family man. Not a street punk.
I don’t know what kind of music you listen to handsomeharry but if it’s less than 20 years old it was probably influenced by Run-DMC. Respect it.
Goddam right. Jam Master Jay (and Run, and D.M.C.) were a straight-up positive force in the world. They were a positive force from the start, and they only got better. Frankly, he could have been selling dope disguised as a nun on the weekends, and his impact on the world would still be a positive one in the balance. How many of us can say the same?
Jesus, I’m still in shock. Has anyone heard anything about the who and why of all this?
At a club last night, I asked the DJ if he could hook it up with something by Run-DMC. He looked at me and asked, in all seriousness, “Why?” Cuz Jam Master Jay just died, you idiot, I replied. What a disgrace. Some people just don’t know the roots of the music they play, I guess.
The latest news I heard last night was that the cops picked up a guy named 50 Cents (!). But it was more for his own protection, since word had hit the street that he was somehow involved, and the police didn’t want people taking things into their own hands. But still no arrests.
Listen, I admire Run-DMC and Jay as much as anybody here. I don’t even want to think about how many hours I’ve spent listening to their music over the years.
But as much as I’ve heard that he was a good guy and a positive influence, that doesn’t necessarily mean he was an angel or that it’s not conceivable that he could have been into some bad shit.
I haven’t ever heard or read anything that might indicate he was into anything bad, but I didn’t know the man. I never once hung out with him, shook his hand, or even saw his face without a tv screen in between us.
Just remember that none of us knows what he was like IRL. Even though it’s almost overwhelmingly unlikely that he brought the shooting on himself, there’s always that chance.
Don’t be too hard on that kid, Aha. He wasn’t as tactful about it as he might have been, but the point he made is valid.
That was mostly the point of this. It doesn’t matter he was into some bad shit. Who here can say they are a totally innocent person in all ways? I’m just saying that his contribution to music and the hip hop community outweighs any speculation that he might’ve been into drugs, etc (which I seriously doubt he was) and that people should show respect and not turn their backs if he made some bad choices. The worst thing I could see him possibly doing is maybe turning someone down for a record contract.
Of course, I would take this entire thread back if it turns out he raped or killed people but let’s be realistic. I don’t fucking think so.
This is sort of drifting into one of my pet peeves: Hero worship.
People get a free pass in our society because they play a game well or make music. And that’s ridiculous. Yeah, they all make important contributions to the arts, to entertainment, etc, but so what?
If the really nice guy who sits next to you on the bus turned out to be a drug dealer or a slaver would you be able to say “well, but he was a really nice guy and always made my day brighter!”? Of course not. The fact that somebody is an entertainer - no matter how talented - doesn’t excuse the things they do in their personal lives.
Don’t forget that, as handsomeharry said, O.J. Simpson was loved and respected almost universally for his sports prowess and for his roles in the Police Squad! movies. That doesn’t change what happened.
That said, I’m not attacking JMJ in particular. On that point I’m fully on your side. It’s just the angle that “it doesn’t matter what he did…he made good music and was a positive role model!” that you’re hanging onto. O.J. was loved and a positive role model too.
Until they found his wife and her boyfriend in a pool of blood.
No link for it, sorry. I heard it on Westwood’s show last night on (BBC) Radio 1. Someone called in from NYC with that info – it might have been Dr. Dre (the DJ, not the rapper/impressario) or someone else from NY), but it was definitely a DJ. But like I wrote, that was the latest scoop at the time; the news might be different now.
I just find it interesting that when talking about this young man’s death, folks are bringing up all kinda shit like this.
(Would anyone think to mention OJ Simpson if we were talking about the murder of U2’s Bono? Britney Spears? David Bowie?)
When John Lennon died, did people say crap like, "We don’t know what kind of guy he was "? Did they say, “That rocker probably had it coming”? Did people automatically assume that drugs and/or gangs were related to his murder? No, because Lennon was seen as a good man. Just like JMJ should be.
Jam Master Jay was a John Lennon for my generation. He was a forefather of hip hop, back when the genre wasn’t all about slickness and getting paid. It annoys me when journalists continually group JMJ’s death with those of Biggie and Tupac. It’s an insult to JMJ, who had nothing to do with all that east coast/west coast madness that the media hypes up.
He wasn’t a thug. He wasn’t a gang banger. He wasn’t slinging. Until there’s evidence shown otherwise, we should all assume that JMJ was a good man. Nothing about him–his profession, his age, or his race–should lead us to any other conclusion.
I’m not into hero worship either, but JMJ’s death makes me sad. And the way he’s being treated by some people makes me sadder.
First, I hate the phrase ‘The <Somewhat analogous situation> for our/my/their/your generation.’ From what I know, it does seem a valid analogy but it’s a trite and annoying phrase, and people will likely pick up on it to belittle your point.
Second, aside from that, good post. Unless something comes up that proves - or even suggests strongly - that Jam Master Jay was into some sort of bad shit that led to his death, talking as if it’s proven that he was is insulting, to say the least. And, no, that he was a hip-hop artist doesn’t count.
A-fucking-men. We lost one of the great ones last wednesday. the whole idea that “well he might have been involved in some bad shit” is idiotic. one: there is zero evidence that he was involved in anything shady, and two: what difference does it make. the man was gunned down in cold blood, nothing makes that ok. it pisses me off when I here this compared to the 2pac and biggie shootings. don’t get me wrong, I thought those were horrible too, but Jam Master Jay wasn’t involved in some stupid ass rap feud, Run DMC was a decidedly positive influence and trying to lesson the impact by calling it “another hiphop murder” is idiotic.
Excuse me? When exactly did I say he had it coming, or call it “another hiphop murder” or compare it to anybody else’s death?All I said is that none of us can say what he was like or what he was into, and we escpecially can’t say it’s impossible that he did anything to bring the hostility on himself, since not f-ing one of us knew anything about him aside from a) the image that he and his label wanted us to see, and b) the fact that he was a really good and influential musician.
Yes I admired his music for over 20 years. Yes I’m sad and angry that he can’t make any more music. But don’t try to draw parallels that don’t exist or make claims about what I think.
And for the record, I didn’t give a damn about John Lennon’s murder any more than any other person’s murder. He was just a freaking musician, for crying out loud. A very famous and influential musician, but just a damn musician!!
You people act as if entertainers are gods of some sort. THAT is my problem. Not the fact that JMJ was a rapper. Get a grip.
I used the analogy because it was the most appropriate one I could think of, and also because many of the people who don’t get the seriousness of JMJ’s death may have felt entirely different when Lennon died. JMJ and his crew inspired a generation, just like Lennon did. You don’t have to like rap or hip-hop to appreciate this fact.
See, I care when some musicians and writers die because often they wrote something that really spoke to me deep down, or got me through a tough time, or made me think. I know people personally who do something on the same scale, but other folks on the street don’t know them. So if I lament the death here of my friend Max and talk about how he made me smile, or opened up a whole new interest in different literary genres in me, or what have you, other posters will give their sympathy but not understand. If I say “I’m sad because Jam Master Jay died, because this work did this for me and this song touched me when I was going through this rough time, and…” then immediately many other posters will recognize what I’m saying and have a common understanding of the man’s work and what he’s done.
Musicians, writers, etc. were able to communicate with a lot of people. It doesn’t mean that anyone here necessarily thinks they truly, really “know” that person, but then again, I don’t go around assuming that the average listing in the obit column was a horrible person either. I didn’t feel any grief when Princess Diana died; I didn’t identify with her or feel touched by anything she’d done. Same thing with people like Tupac Shakur, etc. But for people who’ve touched my life at least indirectly and whose work I admire, even a professor who’d been a cancer researcher at my alma mater, I feel some sadness at their passing. It just happens to be easier to find people on the board who know of, say, Jam Master Jay’s work than the work of a friend of mine who died.
I don’t know if your response was aimed at me, Joe_Cool, but just to be clear, I was ranting about the responses I’ve heard to this death in general(mostly IRL). I didn’t mean to imply that you had said any of those things.
guess I misunderstood you. Like I said, I’ve also heard nothing but good about JMJ, but at the same time, I’m annoyed at the free pass given to musicians and other entertainers. As stated in the OP, “I don’t give a fuck if he was in the hole to a thousand different Columbian drug lords. Does that go back and make his music have less of an impact of my life? On the world?”
By that line of reasoning, if Charles Manson made a groundbreaking, revolutionary, highly influential record, he should go free, because the world can benefit from his music, and who gives a fuck what he did? :rolleyes:
So anyway, sorry I got so defensive. It’s just difficult to argue the philosophical side when in this particular instance I agree that the victim was most likely a good man.
