Moderator Interrupts this Love-Fest to remind you that there’s no personal insults and no name-calling in Cafe Society. We play nice here.
In comics, as in other arts, there’s rarely a “right” or “wrong” answer to matters of taste. In this forum, you respect others for having their tastes, even if different from yours. You can explain why you like this one over that one, but comments about how only a wossname could like that one over this one are inappropriate and out of place.
And, for cryin out loud, you’re talking about comics here. I mean, I understand how music-lovers got into fistfights over operas, but comics? Please. No name-calling.
Moderator Hat off: You’re talking about suspension of disbelief? In comics? My favorite comics were the Uncle Scrooge drawn by Carl Barks, and “belief” or “disbelief” don’t even come into question.
There are, however, limits to everything including the suspension of one’s disbelief. You can go too far in any medium of fiction and comics are no exception. Uncle Scrooge doesn’t take itself seriously like Batman does or even pretend to be real. Comics still try to base themselves in some sort of reality close to our own. One can suspend disbelief for say someone like Superman because you have to accept that he is an alien whose cells react differently to our sun. The same logic applies to mutans, Martian Manhunter etc. It does not, however (imho), apply to a silly character like Batman. I can’t suspend disbelief for this character and therefore I do not enjoy reading about him. That’s my opionion and in this case it is a valid as Batman fans (as you correctly noted, we aren’t exactly discussing fine art here).
The old rules about “suspension of belief” were that you could suspend disbelief for one item, perhaps two, perhaps three, but the cumulative piling up of six impossible things caused you to move outside the realm altogether.
SO, which of these superheroes is believable? And even if we can somehow believe in the super-powers, do we really believe it would be possible to run around in tights and spandex, fighting crime in their spare time? Sorry. None of them pass the “suspension of disbelief” test.
That doesn’t make them less enjoyable as entertainment. It just means they’re not real, and there’s no pretense of reality. Sure, people can work within the realm, just like for Sherlock Holmes or Tarzan or Star Trek or any of the others. Those games can be great fun. But the line where each person can no longer “suspend disbelief” is a fine one, and just because you’re HERE and someone else is THERE is no reason to call them names. You can’t accept Batman, but you can accept a supernatural spider-sense? Sure. I can accept Uncle Scrooge, and you can’t, but no name-calling.
I personally can’t believe my mother-in-law really exists, but unfortunately she’s got everyone else convinced.
I believe, however, that one can stretch suspension of disbelief when you can accept the underlying basis, no matter how fantastical, of a superhero’s powers. For me, it is easier to accept Superman’s many feats because I first have to accept that he is an alien with a different biological make-up than humans. Spiderman was bitten by a spider etc.
Sherlock Holmes was at least somewhat based on logic and he rarely, if ever, performed superhuman physical feats. Batman is mentioned in the same breath as Superman and the like and I just think that is ridiculous given that he wouldn’t last in the real world. That is relevant because his powers are human and human only. I can’t suspend disbelief based on that factor.
Regardless, this is a total hijack though I am not sure I called anyone names in this thread. I did respond to a snarky comment but it was more of a question then a comment
This needs a little more structure i think. So I’ll limit my self to a five person team of X-characters who IMHO would be able to take out any five person JLA team.
Phoenix. ‘nuff said
Storm. Very very powerful and a good leader in combat
Rogue and I mean at her current level of wrongness where she has access to every power that she has ever imprinted before. This gives her a laundry list of powers even Martian Manhunter would envy. Hell between her Hulk, Ms. Marvel and her original powers she should be more than enough to take out (modern age) Superman single handedly.
Polaris same powers as Magneto
Cabel who at the moment mite be thee most powerful thing living on earth in the 616.
I fell confident that these five could take on just about any five person JLA team IMHO
Last ones standing are Superman, Flash, Zauriel, Green Lantern, Plastic Man, Juggernaut, Phoenix, and Storm.
We’ll get the big guns out of the way. Superman vs. the Juggernaut. Supes can fly around all day if he wants, and the Juggernaut can lob dirt forever. Super-vision and breath won’t dent Juggy poo a bit. This one has to be fought ground level. I’ll give Juggs the jump on Supe literally. He wraps up his battle first and jumps on Supes, driving him to ground after Rogue goes down. Supes flies out from under after getting grounded and tries the eye blasts. Juggs thanks him for scratching an itch. Supes flies down at high speed to punch but Juggs grabs him and gets carried along for the ride (the ole “how can he move so fast” cliche about big dudes. happens all the time ) Anywho, all options exhausted Superman has to go knock down drag out. I’ll put the Juggernaut on par with Superman as far as strength and durability, but he just doesn’t have the speed.
Winner: Superman, but barely again.
Next I’ll throw Zauriel against Storm. He’s fast and an agent of God, but there’s a reason Storm was worshipped as a goddess. Zauriel get’s the ride of his life in a twister, but the JLA number advantage saves his bum. Green Lantern traps her in a bubble of emerald energy. Cue claustrophobia. Storm freaks out and blows her way out using ounce of power at her disposal. Kyle gets blasted hard. Storms free, but she’s used a lot of power in her hissy fit and is no match for Zauriel.
Winner: Zauriel. Green Lantern and Storm are both out.
Meanwhile, Flash was whipped up a nice little whirlwind around Phoenix, disorienting her enough to keep her from getting away or taking him out. With Superman, Plastic Man, and Zauriel coming her way.
I haven’t seen the all-new, all-different Rogue in action, so I guess I have to defer to your better judgment on this one. Also (and much to my dismay), DC seems to have suddenly decided that Wonder Woman is the biggest wimp in the DC universe and possessing of practically no superpowers (her recent fight with Medusa, the Supes/Wondy fights in Superman #111 and the latest Superman/Batman), so I’m not sure how much I want to vouch for her at the moment.
Any 5-person JLA team? Are we limiting ourselves to post-Crisis? Because if not, I think a team of, say, Earth 1 Superman, Ion, Phantom Stranger, Pre-Crisis Green Lantern, and post-Crisis Martian Manhunter would be a pretty big challenge for your five.
Ok here lets try this. Make a 5 man X or Jla (post Crisis Only). I mean i’ll be honest if it’s an all out all team brawl JLA wins hands by sure numbers alone (and if it’s pre Crisis you can count the fight in seconds).
Having read a bit about Ion and known a little bit about Spectre, let’s agree to keep them out of the discussion at this point. We all know that both of them could clobber the X-Men with both hands tied behind their backs and their heads firmply planted up their bums.
If you agree to this, I promise not to bring this up ever again.
Post-Crisis, they’d probably still have trouble with, say, Ion, Phantom Stranger, Superman, Martian Manhunter, and either Flash or Hourman (either of whom could effectively render the X-Men immobile).
Longshot v Batman. Longshots luck kicks in and the utility belt breaks and falls off. Batmans tights drop revealing womens underwear - and ya’ll thought you knew how crazy he was. The next day Batman leaves the JLA over some graffitti found on the mens room wall.
Xavier v J’onn in a winner take all scalp waxing competition. Who will be the shiniest?
Aquaman v Psylocke argue over which character has been redone more times.
Quicksilver/Northstar v Flash/Flash in three legged race. Team Flash wins a controversial one after Wally takes off so fast he rips the leg off of his counterpart. The judges rule that since there were three legs on Wally as he crossed the line, he fulfills the race obligation and wins. Quicksilver and Northstar have taken it to the IOC and are awaiting a final ruling.
Superman v Multiple Man. Superman hits Madrox so hard with his first punch that the planet is covered with Madroxes (Madroxi?) Supes gets buried and is never seen again.
) Anywho, all options exhausted Superman has to go knock down drag out. I’ll put the Juggernaut on par with Superman as far as strength and durability, but he just doesn’t have the speed.