Muslims don’t drink. Everybody can suck my dick.
Ok, I was wrong about Iraq. I assumed the law would be similar to countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia where you can’t GET alcohol (I’m still right about Islamic law, though).
That doesn’t mean THESE victims were drunk, though and it wouldn’t have made it ok to slaughter them even if they were.
FUCK, I hate having to admit I was wrong.
People shooting guns in the air in a warzone are not victims, just stupid.
You are in the BBQ pit - - - - please get over yourself - - - - and whatever ideology you adhere to (or not) !!!
For the love of God (or Allah, perhaps) this thread has gotten awfully long on your continued replies - - and lack of understanding to any sort of logic.
That said . . . . I regret I may have offended you - - but I am not sure I need to read the next 116 posts understand the theory and practice of your position.
Please forgive me, if I did not read the next 100++ after my reply . . . although, I am known to have the “patience of Job” . . . I become tired of the rhetoric after the first 116 posts.
I am in the BBQ pit - please burn!!!
Fucking dumbass! Please tell me how recklessly discharging a firearm is responsible. So, “celebratory traditions” are OK huh? I guess I can shoot people in the face in the next town over huh? As long as I don’t actually see them right? What, it doesn’t apply to our society? Only those in the desert? Racist bastard!
I’m sorry, I guess I didn’t leave ample room for you to explain why randomly discharging a firearm in public, in the prescence of children, and innocent bystanders, for the purposes of “celebration” would be a really fucking good idea. I’d love to hear your explaination. BTW, my religion allows me to douse babies with napalm, should I take advantage of this, since it’s my right?
Firingagunintheairinthedesertisfuckingharmlessanddoesnotjustifytheslaughteroffuckingchildrenfuckingblowmealready
I think if we just stop replying to Alde, he’ll get bored and wander off and play with his horses or something :rolleyes:
He shows every sign of someone whose ‘education’ has consisted of digesting without question and reciting without alteration large quantities of old books. Dozens of us of all political persuasions have tried to reason with him or or looked for any signs that he has actually listened to an argument on any issue. It’s futile. The poor guy is simply not that bright, knows it, and hides his insecurities with belligerence and prickliness. Hey, if I were a Saudi elite I’d probably feel pretty insecure right now too, so I can’t entirely blame him–but I can entirely blame him for not engaging in the simplest rules of give and take on this board, refusing to ever say “I never thought of it that way” or even “I see your point, now here’s what folks around here say.” This makes him valueless. In (collect the whole series!) I went into detail about why I’d given up on him.
his last Pit thread
As for Muslims drinking–well, in college the ones I knew were either cheerful teetotalers (ie not self-righteous about it but quietly abstaining) or Girls Gone Wild, not much in between. Of course, back then we were so ignorant we just treated them like any other girls we knew, just that they wore veils to International Day.
We haven’t heard from Aldebaran (the instigator) in a while . . .
Why would that be?!?!?!
Well, in all fairness there is that timezone thing…
but our friend does have a habit of fleeing the kitchen when the temperature reaches a certain level.
Well, I don’t see this debate over celebratory gunfire going anywhere. Sure, it isn’t a good idea, but a lot of traditions in a lot of countries aren’t. I would hope that most SDMB posters would be smart enough to translate a practice that, sure as shit is dangerous and not smart, but not apparently overly stupid considering some of our own traditions.
At any rate, let’s get back to the question of whether this was a wedding party or not. Right now, I am going to have to say that I think it was. If the military is so sure that this was a group of insurgents, they should be more forthcoming than saying, “we have reports.” Certainly, gun video from the gunship exists, no? If it so clearly demonstrates people taking shots at the helicopter, then let’s see it. If not, let’s stop using vague claims like having a satellite phone, passports, or a reasonable amount of cash on hand. If that has suddenly become a crime, god help reporters or any other number of innocent people in the country. Nothing which the military has released so far suggests to me even strong evidence of the wedding party having been anything but. When I hear strongly worded but ambiguous phrases like, “weapons systems,” which could mean anything from an AK-47 (who doesn’t have one in Iraq?) to a radar guided SAM instillation, I get suspicious that the military is attempting to overstate its case. Let’s not forget that the US military has excused itself from culpability in the case of the Afghan wedding party; it still claims that the attack was justified. Just like when we killed those four Canadian terrorists, whoops, we mean soldiers.
Back to Age Quod Aedis:
You are correct in regards to warfare, but incorrect when it comes to self defense. You’re absolute right to self defense only covers to delivering a response proportional in strength and duration to the initial attack. In other words, just enough to prevent your own injury, not to go on the offensive, and it deals with situations when you are being shot at by people that normally should be regarded as non-combatants.
If all of the claims of the US military turn out to be true, then I am just ranting against the inhumanity of warfare and the evil willingness of those insurgents to place themselves close to children and uninvolved civilians knowing full well that they would be injured and killed to garner sympathy. But, right now, I am leaning more towards thinking our armed services have failed us horribly and cost many innocent lives.
Again, hopefully more information will soon evolve.
Well, at least now you know it’s not fatal. 
And thank you for the admission.
However, you are right, that even if the villagers were drunk, they still didn’t deserve to be slaughtered.
But again, the adults had a responsibility to behave in a way that wouldn’t put their children in danger. NO, THEIR CHILDREN WOULDN’T BE IN DANGER FROM AMERICAN FORCES IF WE HADN’T ILLEGALLY INVADED THEIR COUNTRY. I get that. Honest, I do. I’m just as angry as you are about this invasion. But the ugly fact is that while we’re there, it would be wise of them not to shoot assault rifles off randomly, even in celebration. Let the asshole cowboys get the hell out of their country and then it can be Business As Usual. But until then, just be more careful – buckle up their seatbelts and pull the saftey bar down until the ride is over, that’s all I’m saying.
And milroyj, shutthefuck up. Those dead children are very much victims, and for you to claim otherwise is offensive.
Just in case there were any questions about the validity of the proportional response claim, let’s hear from the ICRC. Seeing how they are the agency set out by the Geneve Conventions to know about these things, their response is probably a bit more important than Age Quod Aedis’s humble opinion.
There you have it folks.
shutthefuckup yourself. The “dead children” are victims alright, but not of the Americans. Surely you’ve heard of the concept of personal, or in this case, parental, responsibility? Yes? Then why were children hanging out at 2:30 AM with people shooting guns off in A FREAKING WAR ZONE?
milroyj I sure hope you hadn’t heard this at the time you were posting the previous message.
Don’t bet on it, no-one believes bleeding heart liberal papers. So let’s see what those pinkoes over at Fox are reporting.
Wow.
Is it really that hard to say “US airships shouldn’t have deliberately opened fire on a crowd that included children, when there was an alternative (in this case, walking away) that didn’t involve death on either side”? What is with this pathological need to try to mitigate our culpability in this by going to such great lengths? Yes, they live in a “war zone.” But that war ended months ago–“Mission Accomplished,” remember? US forces are ostensibly in the region to suppress insurgency and hand power over to a new government–right now, they’re acting more like a police force then an army. Iraq isn’t a “War Zone” in the “armies are openly battling each other” sense, it’s a “War Zone” in the “we’re going to call this police state a War Zone so we can get away with more shit.” Kinda like the “War on Terror” and the “War on Drugs”–hell, both of those must mean the US is a war zone.
For those with the intelligent remarks about the fact that I “suddenly disappear”.
So sorry for you, but I do not stay up all night just to please the SDMB, especially not the idiots who think it is day or night everywhere on this globe when it is day or night where they live.
You know what you can do to prevent this type of stupid remarks in the future? Download a time-zone clock on your PC and look at the differences between your time zone and mine before writing such ignorant stupid comments.
For those who know so much about Islam and say that Muslims definitely drink alcohol, stating this in a way as if exceptions are not exceptions but the rule for every Muslim on this globe by some quotes out of some sort of article (didn’t find it worth any effort to actually look where that came from):
what on earth has this do to with this whole discussion.
Muslims in small communities do not drink alcohol because the social control is very severe in such communities.
If ever someone would drink alcohol in such a community, he would not do this when there is a chance he/she gets caugt on doing that = They would certainly not do this at a wedding.
Occasionaly I drink a glas of champagne or wine. Say: once a month I open a bottle of one or an other at home because it is a bit of a habit to give in to a small temptation. Because I learned to appreciate the art of making a delicious wine.
Yet I would not = never do that when such behaviour could shock other Muslims and I certainly do not get drunk because that is definitely going directly against the commands of Al Qur’an. (There is discussion possible about the prohibition to drink alcohol because of the ambiguity one can detect about the issue in the texts of Al Qur’an. I don’t think I need to go into details about this).
The idiot in that Fox NoNews with his so deliciously smart remark about “who goes in the desert to celebrate a wedding” gives a good summary of the mindset ofseveral members on this thread.
Obsolute ignorance about the world outside his window prevails. The writer doesn’t even have a clue that there are people on this globe that live in a desert and that such people do not go to the capital or an other important town to celebrate whatever they want to celebrate.
No. These people do not live in a “war zone”. The USA made and makes it a “war zone” without their conscent. It is the responsibility of the USA that pilots (proba on Go Pills start bombing civilians who live their lives as they have the right to live in in their own country, their own village their own DESERT.
For those with the intelligent remarks about the fact that I “suddenly disappear”.
So sorry for you, but I do not stay up all night just to please the SDMB, especially not the idiots who think it is day or night everywhere on this globe when it is day or night where they live.
You know what you can do to prevent this type of stupid remarks in the future? Download a time-zone clock on your PC and look at the differences between your time zone and mine before writing such ignorant stupid comments.
For those who know so much about Islam and say that Muslims definitely drink alcohol, stating this in a way as if exceptions are not exceptions but the rule for every Muslim on this globe by some quotes out of some sort of article (didn’t find it worth any effort to actually look where that came from):
what on earth has this do to with this whole discussion.
Muslims in small communities do not drink alcohol because the social control is very severe in such communities.
If ever someone would drink alcohol in such a community, he would not do this when there is a chance he/she gets caugt on doing that = They would certainly not do this at a wedding.
Occasionaly I drink a glas of champagne or wine. Say: once a month I open a bottle of one or an other at home because it is a bit of a habit to give in to a small temptation. Because I learned to appreciate the art of making a delicious wine. Yet I would not = never do that when such behaviour could shock other Muslims and I certainly do not get drunk because that is definitely going directly against the commands of Al Qur’an. (There is discussion possible about the prohibition to drink alcohol because of the ambiguity one can detect about the issue in the texts of Al Qur’an. I don’t think I need to go into details about this).
The idiot in that Fox NoNews with his so deliciously smart remark about “who goes in the desert to celebrate a wedding” gives a good summary of the mindset ofseveral members on this thread.
Obsolute ignorance about the world outside his window prevails. The writer doesn’t even have a clue that there are people on this globe that live in a desert and that such people do not go to the capital or an other important town to celebrate whatever they want to celebrate.
No. These people do not live in a “war zone”. The USA made and makes it a “war zone” without their conscent. It is the responsibility of the USA that pilots (probably once again drugged with Go Pills) massacre civilians who live their lives in their own country, and celebrate their festivities in their own country in their own village in their own desert.
It is not an obligation for Iraqis to live every minute of their lives with in the back of their mind the thought about 'what could the occupyer do to me when I do this of that" by every step they take and by every move they make.
It is not an obligation for Iraqis to have even an idea that the US criminals who occupy their nation have no clue about their traditions.
It is an obligation for the invaders to know everything about that nation, its ethnicies, its cultures, its religoins and its traditions and to respect them.
The USA has no right to be there. Everything what happens there, every death caused byt the US or the other invaders, every wound on an Iraqi caused by the US or the other invaders is the fault of the USA and the other invaders/occupyers because they invaded and occupy an sovereign nation.
This should get plugged and ankered in your minds.
Salaam. A
If more conclusive evidence of the “wedding party” being actually a group of foreign fighters exists, the US Military is taking it’s Sweet Fucking Time ™. Again, all we have is some general specualtion along the lines of:
Oh, I don’t know, maybe because they FUCKING LIVE THERE, NUMBSKULL? Everything available from other sources paints the place attacked as a village. You know, a location where people like, are born, get married, have kids, grow old, and die. Or some variation thereof. They also had a lot of kids and a lot of women there too. What exactly constitutes a man of military age accoring to hs definition? Considering that we have detained a significant number of people in broad sweeps well into their upper 40’s and early 50’s, it seems like, “males of military age,” doesn’t mean much. All the time I am thinking of the weddings in which I have attended up in the mountains here in Colorado. And I’m a male of military age. I suppose some of you might respond that I shouldn’t be trusted here in a message board because I am so obviously a terrorist.
Oooo, several, in a country loaded to the teeth with weapons held by everyday people. Shotguns aren’t terribly effective anti-personel weapons except for some tactical applications, so let’s ignore those. Same goes for handguns, more of a means of close quarters self defense than picking off enemeys from 600 yards, Kalashnikov’s aren’t rare by any means in Iraq, and that brings us to machine guns. He should be more specific by what he means when he say, “machine guns.” If we’re talking twenty crates of some 300 round squad weapon, I’ll buy it as evidence for insurgent activities, but there are a lot of weapons out there with full-auto capabilities that aren’t what most people think of when they hear, “machine gun.” Again, since the US military was the one doing the killing here, I find that the onus generally lies with them to demonstrate why the people killed deserved to die.
Finally, it really concerns me that we’re already days afte this incident and the US military has yet to release anything very strongly supporting their story, including gunship footage or more specific evidence that the village was what they say it was. If it turns out that the, “specific intelligence,” against this village came from tortured detainees…
Well, god help us.
Well if there is such a thing let him help the poor bastards that had their lives taking away from them.
If the Army had evidence it would have been released by now IMO. This is the same as all those WMD finds that were announced with big headlines and then backed down on with a little end of press conference announcement.