Maybe you should, like, find out, instead of, like, y’know, speculating.
Then find out exactly what percentage of SUV’s are Lexus’s.
So, you’re relying on an Engineer for information on social trends and human psychology…
I think I found your problem, Ol’ John.
What “fantastic scenarios”?
Fantastic Scenarios: I coach a hockey team that has games in the most god-awful places you’ve ever seen, and we divy up the kids and head to many snow covered places.
Fantastic Scernarios: In the spring, I do all sorts of side work with my brother-in-law. We clear lots, we install sprinkler systems, etc. Never did want to find out how well Mom’s minivan could pull a tree stump, and never care to find out.
Fantastic Scenarios: I own a boat, and you can’t drive on most major highways with it unless there has been a hurricane or it’s riding on a trailer.
SUV hater dilemma: Some people do need SUVs. Okay, this must be acknowledge, so there is a purpose for these vehicles.
SUV hater dilemma 2: SUVs are slowly eliminating the negative performance issues plagued by earlier models (which the media love to ram down our throats):
The problem with SUV haters is that they know the industry will respond to keep SUVs on the road and the manufacturers will all come together improve performance dramatically.
Like most vehicles filling a new niche, the honeymoon is not always easy, and the vehicles fall under great criticism from doomsdayers at the onset of their life in the market. We know that auto and parts manufacturers are improving many of the key performance related issues (including safety & efficiency).
This creates huge dilemmas for SUV haters, because they must reduce their arguement to: “People drive them to act macho”, which we all know is about as ridiculous as it sounds. And so what if people do drive them to be macho? Most cars are not sold for their overall utility - many have to appeal to a person’s style, including Honda Accords, or Saabs, or even the family Taurus or minivan.
Ol’ John doesn’t know why he hates “posuers” - he just hates them. He clings to some data to show that he hates SUVs based on performance, but that info is thin at best, and rapidly being made history by automanufacturers.
FJ, you must understand that SUVs are “new” relative to the rest of the industry, and have catching up to do. It’s a new mode of transit, it complex and requires on-going refinement and learning.
:):):):):)Small cars were “new” once too, and they were considered “DEATH TRAPS” because of their flimsy skins, small tires, weak brakes and poor handling, not to mention their lack of merging power. Now, we sit back watching you point to smaller vehicles as safer, even though people stayed away from them because of safety concerns. Guess what? Manufacturers and parts suppliers learned tons about these vehicles and improved them well beyond anyone’s WILDEST dreams! :):)
FJ, get over it.
Thanks, Philster. I’m hoping that fatherjohn will post his definition of “fantastic scenarios”. We who drive them know their utility. Some of us know the fun of bouncing over a muddy, rocky trail. Some of us take them camping, towing, hauling, etc.
But what I want to know is: What “fantastic scenarios” is fatherjohn talking about? Since you and others have given examples of how we actually use SUVs, I’d like to know what he thinks is “fantastic” (i.e., “based on fantasy : not real”, “so extreme as to challenge belief : UNBELIEVABLE” [Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary, © 1981 by G. & C. Mirriam Co.])?
That made my day. Thanks Philster.
Yesterday, I stopped by an appliance store on the way home from work, and picked up a new oven. I didn’t have to move any seats, or anything, just open the back doors and it slid right in. Wouldn’t have been so easy in a minivan.
Fatherjohn keeps throwing the word poseur around like he knows what it means. A poseur is someone who is pretending to be something they are not. What am I pretending to be by driving my Yukon? There is no way you could intelligently answer that question because you don’t know me. You know nothing about why I purchased an SUV, what I do with it, or what kind of a person I am.
Fatherjohn, however, is pretending to be dumber than dirt in order to get a response. Since he can’t really be that stupid, and still be allowed near anything near as dangerous as a computer, he must be a poseur.
I dunno, man… even dirt responds to stimulus.
And Philster… succinctly put. I bow to you.
Spoofe, Johnny, bdgr, I hate this thread, but it’s almost bearable since fj went MIA.
Discover magazine, April 2001
I for one do not want my family or myself to be guinea pigs for the auto manufacturers to work out the bugs in their SUV design.
No, you just have to drive them like a truck instead of a sportscar. They do roll easier, but they survive other kinds of accidents better. And since other kinds of accidents are more common, they are safer to drive than most other vehicles on the road. I used to drive a postal jeep. These things would roll easier than just about anything on the road, but since I knew that, I never had that happen. I was even in a pretty bad accident in it, and I still kept it on four wheels. I have been driveing SUV’s for years. They really aren’t a new thing, just newly popular. Suburbans, cherokee’s,wagoneers, and the now defunct international scouts and travelalls have been around forever without any real problems. Just now, you have more people driving them, so they get noticed more.
oh, he’ll be back. Until the word “BANNED” appears under his name, he will coming back. Who knows, maybe he got a bad grade in citizenship and his mommy grounded him from the computer.
Cleosia, step up to the plate wearing your ignorant hat. Great start. Let me ask all of you “anit-this” or “anti-that” scare mongers a fucking series of VERY VERY FAIR QUESTIONS…O’fuckin Kay?
The car you drive now…what kind of car is it? I’ll have you easily conced that it is at least 100 times safer than the cars built from 1900-1930…right? Who were the gunnea pigs for your comfortable ride to the office? The only real experience is practical real world experience. Before someone could make an airbag, many faces had to go smashing into the fucking windshield first. So, someone was your guinea pig already…AND YOU ARE THE GUINNEA PIG FOR FUTURE DRIVERS WHO ARE GOING TO BENEFIT FROM SAFETY MODIFICATIONS THAT ARE MADE AS A RESULT OF ACCIDENTS YOU, I AND OUR PEERS ARE GOING TO BE INJURED AND KILLED IN. YOU ARE A GUINEA PIG. SORRY.
See, the first passenger airplanes were unsafe compared to other airplanes that had evolved better everything. What fantasy world do you live in where everything is as safe as everything else, and the product that is first produced is the best it’s going to be?
Trains…FUCKING trains were deemed UNSAFE!!! THE FIRST CARS WERE DECLARED UNSAFE! The first SMALL CARS? UNSAFE!!! Air travel? UNSAFE UNSAFE UNSAFE!! NO!! WE CAN"T FLY!!! IT"S UNSAFE!!AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! Well, I got news for you, honey, those BIG fucking things that they can’t figure out how they fly…THEY ARE SAFER THAN ANYTHING!
LISTEN LOUD AND CLEAR: I READ THE WHOLE FUCKING DISCOVERY MAGAZINE, NOT THAT JUST THAT ARTICLE. FLIP THE FUCKING PAGES AND READ HOW WE DON’T QUITE UNDERSTASND HOW 70,000 PUONDS OF METAL CAN STAY AIRBORN AND BE THE SAFEST FORM OF TRAVEL. HOW DO YOU LIKE FLYING WHEN NO ONE KNOWS HOW THEY FLY? BUT THEY ARE THE SAFEST THINGS AROUND. NOW, OUR ESTEEMED PHYSICS GENIUSES EXPLAIN THE PHYSICS AND DANGERS OF SUVS!!! Physics: Oh, Airplanes, which fly for reasons we don’t understand are safe. Now, let’s look at the physics of an SUV and deem them unsafe. I DON"T THINK SO!!!
How dare Discovery tell me that we don’t understand the physics of flight and then tell me about the phyhsics of an SUV? What credence do we give to them when we are safest in something that we don’t understand the physics behind??? This is bizzare.
I laughed reading it because the editors fucked up royally.
THAT SUV ARTICLE HAD A FOCUS, AND IT WAS ON SCARE-MONGERING. IT WAS THE WORST PIECE OF CRAP I’VE READ. THE VERY SCIENTISTS WHO ARE SCARING YOUR PANTS OFF ARE GONNA BE THE SAME ONES MAKING IMPROVEMENTS AND PROFITTING FROM ENGINEERING ACCOMPLISHMENTS FOR ALL VEHICLES, INCLUDING SUVS.
I HATE SAYING IT, BUT IF THE FUCKING SCARE MONGERS OF THE WORLD GOT THERE WAY, WE WOULD HAVE HALTED EVERYTHING A LONG TIME AGO.
Trust me when I tell you that your stairs are more dangerous than an SUV.
SUVs are safe. They have airbags, antilock brakes, 4wd, passive restraints, etc, etc. For a failry new product, and coinsidering how pathetically other products got started, SUV are way better than average for a new, very sophisticated product. Small and compact cars, trains, airplanes…they all should have gotten off to such a good start.
Ok, so 60% of fatalities in SUVs were from rollovers. That means 40% died in other accidents, including car/car accidents and car/barrier accidents. However, 77% of all other car fatalities come from car/car accidents and car/barrier accidents.
Since rollover accidents have been decreasing as methods of building SUV’s get better, which do you think is safer now?
Objection:
“I am an SUV owner (Durango) and I would agree that many SUV owners are
poseurs. However, I would also point out that just as many sports car
owners are posers. I understand that by “poseur SUV owners”, you refer
to people who buy the vehicle simply because it is trendy and not
because it serves any real purpose for them. Many sports car owners,
though, are simply posers…period.”
Response:
“This is true, many people buy sports cars just for their image. But sports cars have advantages that are very useful even if they are not used to their full potential. Things such as excellent brakes and handling are very useful and advantageous even on the daily commute. . . .”
Well, fatherjohn has been “on the road” (and off the road) doing an informal study of SUV’s. Approximately 320 were examined.
Percentage occupied by more passengers than would fit in a Honda Accord: less than one percent
Percentage carrying more cargo than could fit in a Honda Accord: less than one percent.
Forget about minivans – for most SUV drivers, a Honda Accord will do. (Unless, of course, the goal is to be a macho asshole poseur who bullies and intimidates other drivers . . .)
Are you looking at transparent vehicles?
Coldfire says, “Waaaah…”
Does anyone else think of that Seinfeld episode where this guy Jimmy keeps referring to himself in the third person?
Waaaahh…
:rolleyes:
pot? kettle? whatever.
Sarcasm? Impaired?
Whatever.
Most Honda Accords are 4 doors, which, of course is wasteful, considering that most trips in all vehicles are one person trips.
One-person trips in vehicles is an issue. By default, SUVs would be plagued by the same problem. Minivans too…wagons too…Accords too.
Also, up to 30% of Honda Accords are V6s - and how many of those poseurs need the V6? Not many. Jesus…they have three extra doors, and two extra cylinders. What a fuckin’ waste.
Ah. He’s back.
Wait.
So, does this mean you observed SUV’s offroad?
The hole’s deep enough. Stop digging.