Silver bullets

Factual Questions
1

Maybe all you gun-toting types can resolve an old RPG argument…

Many years ago in a game of Call of Cthulu we had to deal with some werewolves. So in the traditional manner we had some silver bullets made and went ahunting. When we finally got to shoot the critters, the game referee applied a heinous targetting penalty, saying silver bullets will tumble since silver is less dense than lead. My character wound up dead, dammit.

So two questions:

  1. Will silver bullets tumble? Physics suggests they will be stabilised less by their rotation, but just how borderline is bullet stability?

  2. How much will a tumbling pistol bullet affect the accuracy at a range of 20 feet?

2

Well if all you need is a silver alloy to kill the werewolf try Oregon Trail Laser Cast Silver Bullets

"The Laser-Cast silver alloy was developed to do three things, and we know it does them well:

Delivers better accuracy
Allows use at higher velocities
Eliminates leading
Our bullet has a more uniform grain structure, which fills out better, looks better, and is much more consistent bullet-to-bullet."

It also has a link to an article in a shooter’s journal with more specific information on the alloy.

3

(Actually I don’t tote a gun.)

You know, I read about this several years ago. IIRC, yes, silver bullets are very inaccurate. The article I saw said something about the density of the metal, but it’s been a long time and I wasn’t really interested so it didn’t stick.

The Oregon Trail site didn’t say how much silver is in the bullet, but it says their bullets cost nearly the same as other bullets. Sure, silver will make their bullets harder; but so will other metals. Could it be just a marketing ploy? If shot with one, will the werewolf say, “Oooh! That stings!” and then rip your back off?

If you get a chance, read From A to Z in the Chocolate Alphabet by Harlan Ellison. “L” is for “Lycanthrope”.

4

This werewolf stuff must not be a very old legend. It’s got to be a silver bullet? A silver musket-ball won’t do? What about a silver arrowhead? Or a silver knife? I guess it’s too much to ask that silly superstitions make sense? But gosh…

5

Hey, it’s a game and you play by the rules! If the rules come from superstitions, books or movies so be it…

In our game, werewolves were vulnerable to any silver weapon, simple contact with silver would burn them. We went for bullets because our characters had pistols and could shoot, whereas they had no skill at archery, knife fighting etc.

6

Get yourself some silver buckshot, and a pump action. “Take that, werescum!”

Tris

Imagine my signature begins five spaces to the right of center.

7

Bullet density is far less important than the ratio of length to diameter. The Greenhill Formula for bullet stabilization makes no reference to bullet weight, just that ratio. Still, it’s empirically derived from observations of lead-allow bullets, so YMMV.

As long as they are homogeneous, there should be no problem stabilizing them, especially out to 20 feet. Now if the ref wanted your party to suffer a little attrition, a lecture in the physics of rifled ammunition wouldn’t help much.

Sure, I’m all for moderation – as long as it’s not excessive.

8

I really like the silver buckshot idea. Even just a fraction of the shot being silver would carve a path out any invading lycanthropes :cool:. On a less costly note, how about a silver-headed spear? Make it just long enough so that you can stab the werewolf but be out of it’s reach.

–It was recently discovered that research causes cancer in rats.

9

Not everyone buys the idea that only silver can kill a werewolf. Here’s a quote from the short story “Wolf, Iron, and Moth” by Phillip José Farmer.

You can find this story in The Ultimate Werewolf, edited by Byron Preiss. I don’t know if it’s still in print.

10

IIRC, David Naughton in An American Werewolf in London was gunned down by brits with L1A1s (FALs) with issue 7.62mm (.30 cal.) NATO ammunition.

11

Nothing about those exciting days of yesteryear? No Lone Ranger gags or quotes? You people are disappointing me… :frowning:

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

12

Yes, but it was the ref who was giving us the physics lecture! Being picky, we asked for a cite but he said it didn’t matter, we deserved what we got because we hadn’t test-fired our new, custom ammo. And I couldn’t tell him he was full of shit, because he wasn’t.
Next time I’m using the shotgun!

13

Sounds like an excellent ref, actually. Lucky he didn’t tell you the untested bullets jammed in the barrel, killing several of you…

Concur about shotgun – great idea. Now how about loading it with silver dust? Since CoC werecritters were injured by merely touching silver, letting the whole pack inhale a cloud of the stuff could be cool.

Sure, I’m all for moderation – as long as it’s not excessive.

14

There is a .22 cal. round sold for shooting gallery use called a CB cap. IIRC the bullet was made of graphite or someting similar, not metal. The bullet is supposed to shatter on impact and I don’t believe they were inaccurate because of their lighter weight.
I had some lead bullets (.357 Mag) silver plated one time just for fun. I never shot them and later traded them at a gun show. Seems like that would do for your wolf population problem.

15

At 20 feet the main concern is wat kind of weapon you were shooting. If you were shooting a small barrelled “Saturday Night Special” type gun, than perhaps accuracy might be a small issue.

With a rifle or a long-barrelled pistol I doubt the bullet will have time to tumble in 20 feet.

Let’s face reality, Your bullet could be made of silly putty. If your range is 20 feet it’s still going to be pretty accurate.

16

I have seen more than one source say that the 1:7 twist barrel for a Sporter rifle is better than the 1:9 twist barrel for stabilizing heavy bullets. Sounds like it is tougher to stabilize a heavier bullet.
Standard SDMB Disclaimer:
I don’t have a cite. I would not have commited it to memory if it seemed to be an unreliable source. It has been some time since I’ve read any gun stuff. I said “it sounds like” - no conclusions made.

17
      • It isn’t the bullets weight that is the issue, it is the ratio of length to caliber. However, typical rifling rates (the rate of twist inside the barrel) assume that the bullet will be mostly made of lead (or in some mil ammo, steel). If the bullet is significantly lighter (I dunno how dense silver is compared to lead), it will tumble, even if it is the same length-to-caliber ratio, and fired from the same gun. - Short version: if a bullet gets lighter or longer, you have to increase the rifling twist to spin it faster. How much lighter or longer depends.
      • I have a .22 Crosman airgun that I put an unused stainless Ruger 10/22 barrel on just for kicks; the pellets begin to tumble about 10-12 feet out. Looks and hefts real nice though. - MC
18
      • Military arms are rifled “slow”; this is so that the (solid-type, “ball” if you will) bullets won’t pass straight through the “target” but instead zing around inside. It’s a lovely thought, I know. Soldiers aren’t supposed to use hollowpoints because expanding bullets are banned by the Geneva or some such “war” agreement.
      • Hunting bullets are intended to pass more or less straight into their targets. This is so if you’re shooting at the heart of a trophy buck, the bullet doesn’t make a 90-degree turn and come out the top of his head, ruining the rack. - MC
19

The faster rifling was a response to the increased weight of the new NATO standard round, simply because the heavier round is longer.

Long bullets will tumble inside a body, regardless how well stabilized they are in flight.

See this for some nice tumbling bullet images.

Note that none of the above will aid you in the slaying of werewolves in a game of Call of Cthulhu.

Sure, I’m all for moderation – as long as it’s not excessive.

20
      • When the US Mil went from 55 gr bullets to the 68 grains, they did raise the rifling rate of the guns intended, but if you check that rate against what sporting arms companies sell, it’s still slower than what a typical sport rifle will use. IIRC, the twist that the military uses for the 68 grain is what sport arms use for the 55.
      • An American Werewolf in London is a great movie. All these idiots running around in masks and razors on their fingers puts me to sleep. -Bubblegum horror-(Yawn) - MC