Player A and Player B have gone through several rounds of betting and raising. Player A is holding garbage and B has a good hand. A calls B and B shows his hand. A, seeing that he is beaten throws in his cards face down.
One friend of mine says that this is OK on the basis that a player can fold at anytime. Another friend says that you must show your cards to show that you were bluffing. The theory being that Player B paid to see A’s cards.
I assume that it doesn’t matter which flavor of poker you are playing but if the rules are different for different types, please be specific. I also realize that a friendly game might be different than tournament play so if you play both ways, I’d like to hear it.
The way we play, If player A called player B’s bet, player b must show is hand as player A payed for the privilege. Player A however is under no constraint to do likewise as he can simply “muck” his hand by throwing it in, face down.
This is the way most online poker is played as well.
Adding to my reply, no… player B did not pay to see player A’s hand. If player B checked to player A and player A bet, THEN player B has the option to pay to see A’s hand. B’s last bet was an attempt to enlarge the pot, or force others with weaker hands out of the game, not to pay to see what everyone else has.
If you concede the hand and muck your cards, you are under no obligation to show them to the rest of the players at the table.
Of course, some people do show their cards as part of their strategy. For example, if you play a hand with totally crap cards, it can sometimes be worth showing them to the other players so that people will think you’re a loose player. Then, when you get a good hand, people might be more likely to call or raise.
To amplify Otto’s response, you may request to see any mucked hand, but it is considered bad form. When you make that request it is assumed that you are asking because you suspect collusion between two players. This is especially true in tournaments where one player may ‘dump’ chips to another player by calling bets and then abruptly mucking on the river.
In most cases though the player that mucks may show, but is under no obligation to do so.
At the couple of online poker sites where I’ve played, there’s a box each player can check: “Muck losing/uncalled hands”
“Muck” (for those who might not know) is throwing your cards in without revealing them
I’ve never noticed a call-ee muck his hand at these sites, thus conceding the loss to the caller(s) In fact, I think the software program automatically always reveals the hand of the person who is called.
I just logged in at Party Poker and sat out the hand to check if I’d get to see the winning hand - even if I wasn’t dealt any cards. The answer is yes.
Watched another hand. Community cards showed a straight 6-T. Five guys stayed in, all hands were shown, and everyone took an equal share of the pot. Never saw a 5-way split before.
Well, of course everyone gets to see the winning hand. I mean, the only way you can prove you have the best hand is to show it—unless, of course, nobody calls you, in which case you have the privilege of taking the money without showing your cards.
The OP’s question was, rather, about whether you get to see the losing hand, when the winner has already shown his hand.
This all depends on who calls whom. If i call you, then you have to show me your hand. If my hand is better than yours, then i have to show you my cards if i want to take the pot. If your hand is better than mine, though, i can muck my hand without showing it.
Again, you saw all five hands because everyone won the hand. In a “call” situation, anyone who wants to take the pot has to show his or her hand.
At the site I play, if you’re not dealt cards not only can you not access mucked hole cards, you can’t access the hand history at all. If you’re saying that as a player not in the hand you can see mucked hole cards then that’s a hole in the software that ought to be plugged.
Given that you don’t have to show your hand (based on the above replies), this sounds like cheating. Does it work if you are playing for money or just for fun?
It might be interesting to have Sam Stone’s input on this because, according to this post, he served as a consultant on the very software that GoneFishing uses.
Now I’m even more glad I stay away from online games. The program Sam describes may not be cheating in his book, but it certainly is in mine. Consulting references and keeping track of anything through software or on paper – or anywhere but in your head – is cheating as far as I’m concerned.
But that’s just one player’s opinion. It’s not up to me to decide what’s allowed and what’s not.
I wouldn’t go so far as that. First, I doubt there’s time in an online game to consult much of anything in the course of a hand. You only have a few seconds to make your decision. Second, I have no problem at all with keeping notes on players, either on paper or as part of the software. Recording your own observations isn’t cheating.
The last person who initiates a bet or raises is the first to show his cards and everyone to the left then either shows their cards also or folds.
If its the river and no one initiates a bet, the first person to the left of the dealer has to show his cards first or fold and this continues to the left.
I think it is, when it’s at the table, even if that table is virtual. The software described in the link sounded very quick and robust. But like I said, just my opinion. I’m old-school.
Greg Raymer made a note at the table during the last WSOP (presumably about what a dick Mike Matasow is). How is that cheating? What rule is it violating?
Obviously, I have no say in what’s allowed in casinos or tournaments. But anyone who made notes about the game at the table at any of the house games I play in would be told it’s bad form and would not be invited back if he tried it again.