eagerly awaiting number one
Is Eudokia a name or a title? (A quick Google is suggesting name, but giving just enough evidence that it could be a name-turned-title, like Caesar) Because if it’s the former, the naming of the people involved in this debacle is kind of eerie.
It’s a name, but no more eerie than running into a mess set in, say, Mexico with a Francisco, Paco, Lupe and Lupita, or one in Catalonia involving Jordi, another Jordi, did anybody need a third Jordi?, a Montse and a Montserrat. Or one involving Spaniards about 20 with a Yeni, a Jenifér (pronounced with a hard J) and two Rubenes…
With modern forensics, couldn’t examination of Edward II’s skeleton settle this issue? Let’s root for a lawsuit, perhaps brought by Roger Mortimer’s heirs, to exhume the royal corpse! 
I always liked the unfortunately King Arses of Persia- however he was well before these times.
Having fun with these, Mississippienne. Are you a Will Cuppy reader? These bios give me a pleasant The Decline and Fall of Practically Everybody vibe.
Knock yourself out. But they are pretty much complete fiction.
Imagine if someone wrote an entertaining, engaging bio of President Obama on the SDMB and used FreeRepublic.com as the main source without even telling anyone. Imagine it’s also not a parody piece, either. Suppose the bio is honestly passed off as truth.
It wouldn’t be nitpicking to point out that no, Obama was not actually born in Kenya, is not a fundamentalist Muslim, and is not a member of the Communist Party. It wouldn’t be shocking if people were a bit skeptical, and maybe after the author mentioned that the source was a bunch of freepers, they might feel a little misled. Nobody’s asking for a huge amount of historical rigor here, just a basic separation of what we know from fantasy.
It’s not nitpicking to tell another adult that Santa Claus doesn’t exist or that you can’t learn much history by reading The Lord of the Rings. If this poops anyone’s party, well, sorry.
Not if the poker only did soft-tissue damage, I suspect.
Maeglin, whether or not you’re enthralled by these tales, others, including myself, are enjoying them.
Please understand that we’ve completely taken a shine to Mississippienne’s tales.
We understand that you are not of the same opinion. Stop raining on our parade - if you upset M enough that she stops telling her stories, we won’t be cheering you on, eh? You aren’t in her league as an entertainer.
As she says, she isn’t writing an historical thesis, but sharing some of her own research / enjoyment of medieval European history.
Mississippianne, do go on with your entertaining historical tales. I, for one, enjoy a great story and don’t have to run to the library to back check each fact.
However, do be warned - you’re tickling an interest in more European history. I’ll never be anywhere near your level of knowledge, or come close to your ability to tell a story. However, if I start collecting a library on your era of history, I shall blame you for another reading frenzy!
On with the show!
an seanchai
Or podcasts. It’s WAY better than the Stuff You Missed in History Class blog (whose hosts I detest- way too Delicious Dishmeets sorority girls).
Sorry, but I’m going to have to weigh in on Maeglin’s side. I was enjoying the stories as much as anyone, until I read the one about Marozia, and saw that chestnut about Sergius III and the second “Cadaver Synod”; I then realized that stories that were virtually certain to be untrue were being fobbed off as historical fact. I don’t like being lied to.
I’m not suggesting that Mississippienne shouldn’t tell these stories; they’re great fun, and I appreciate both the work that went into learning the history and typing them out, and the wit and verve she tells them with. I don’t think Maeglin is suggesting it either. I think both of us are saying that a few words in the OP, about discredited sources or history written by enemies, would have been nice.
I am enjoying these posts and take them as I do any historical fiction - more or less representative of the period, while possibly not applying the most rigorous academic standards. The point is to first entertain and secondly intrigue enough to inspire future research on the part of the reader. Any number of historical fiction authors are more or less based on biased or discredited sources; still, if it is a thumping good tale and makes me go and research the real history for myself (with whatever primary or secondary sources as are available), so much the better.
Maeglin next time I personally would love to hear your suggestion of alternate sources without all of the pooping on everyone’s fun.
And just to share, a related podcast I have been enjoying.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/europe-from-its-origins/id303246052
Then start another thread somewhere else. It’s tacky to spoil the mood of this one.
I’m still waiting for #1 - c’mon, Mississippienne, we’re still waiting:)
an seanchai
What makes me angry is that Maeglin’s comments might make readers assume that I just flat-out made this stuff up. For those who would like to take a peek at the sources I used to write about Basil, here ya go. Have at it:
*Vita Basilii *(Life of Basil), commissioned by his grandson Konstantinos VII Porphyrogenitus, is the ‘official’ account of Basil’s rise and reign. This tells us of Basil meeting Nikolaos, Theophilitzes, and his ‘spiritual’ union with Danelis’ son.
The Continuator of George the Monk also backs up VB when it comes to Nikolaos and Theophilitzes.
*Theophanes Continuatus *tells us of Theophilitzes’ penchant for handsome young men.
Luitprand of Cremona gives us the story of Michael spotting Basil at church and being so taken with the way Basil “excelled all others in physique” that he went to the abbot to see about getting and keeping him.
Leonis Grammatici Chronographiatells us that Basil married Eudokia (though continuing to share her with Michael) and was also given Michael’s sister Thekla as a concubine. Leo and the Con. Geo. Monk (above) give virtually identical accounts of how Basil entered into a spiritual union with Nikolaos in church and also how they liked to frolic together in bathhouses.
*Genesios *talks about Michael’s adoration for Basil and the many honors he gave him.
Now frankly, taking all these sources together gives ME a pretty clear picture of who Basil was and what he did. It’s also worth noting that quite a few historians have mentioned the exceptionally homoerotic relationship between Michael and Basil, which is hinted at about as boldly as anyone could’ve by Luitprand. Romilly Jenkins seems to have been the first to accuse Michael of ‘homosexualism’ (sic) with Basil back in the 1960s, and others, including John Boswell and Dr. Shaun Tougher, also discuss it.
Mostly, though, I don’t want anyone leaving this thread thinking that I just made a bunch of crap up and posted about it. If you don’t think Luitprand was telling the truth, or even just repeating a saucy story he heard, fine. But I’m basing what I wrote on the best sources available to me. If Maeglin wants to write a thread rehabilitating Basil’s image, he’s welcome to it.
Eudokia and Basil are both names. Byzantine women, at least the highborn ones, only had a pool of like five names to choose from (Anna, Eudokia, Maria, Theodora, and Irene are maybe the most common). In this they were slightly better off than their more Western European sisters, who at any given time all seemed to have been christened with the same three names.
Byzantine men were slightly better off than the women when it came to naming, but not by a whole hell of a lot. Really I should call Basil by his proper Greek name, Basileios.
Frankly, I do have access to the library at Yale, and I can fact check for myself, thanks very much.
Go back to recounting tales, I want some entertainment!
Procopius really was a nasty worm, wasn’t he? Talk about a backstabbing bitch…
We’re still awaiting nomination #1, but if we have to vote now, my vote is for Marozia. Consider it the romantic in me. 
We’re still waiting for number one! Pretty please?
Bumping this a month late – who could be worse than these five already mentioned?
PS. Somebody needs to make a biopic on Fulk Nerra, tout de suite.