I don’t understand this type of thinking. What does your own body type have to do with what you prefer? If your own body is of a type that is generally not considered very attractive, it doesn’t mean that you should settle for something you don’t like. You’re not being fair to yourself, and you’re definitely not being fair to the woman.
But runway models aren’t supposed to be “hot.” They’re supposed to be clothes-hangers. If you look past the makeup, you’ll see that many of them aren’t particularly pretty.
There are a few women out there who manage to be good clothes-hangers AND hot. And that, my friend, is where supermodels come from. Back in the olden days, before every model out there was called a “supermodel,” one of the very things that defined a supermodel was that she was able to do runway AND swimsuit-type AND face/magazine cover work. Christie Brinkley and Heidi Klum are two examples of this kind of model.
KarlGrenze: Zwei wasn’t talking about catcalls. She was talking about getting “hit on.” And her perspective isn’t skewed. This is a generalization about two admittedly very diverse communities, but here goes–Black and Hispanic men often place the line between “good” and “too fat” at a much larger dress size than white men do. I won’t get into the whys of this here, but I’d suspect that any white girl who has grown from “average” to <cough> “curvy” in an area with a significant population of black and/or Hispanic men can tell you that this is true. Attention from white guys goes down overall. Attention from black and/or Hispanic guys stays the same or increases.
I almost made that exact point, but decided to err on the side of brevity.
But for purposes of this thread, they’re still putting these women up on a pedestal (or a catwalk). Now, I don’t believe that we’re all slaves to the ideals we see in the media, but then what’s the point of the whole fashion thing if even they admit their ideals serve their own ends? I hope that the scorn and dismissal of such images would make make them totally irrelevant. It hasn’t quite worked that way, yet.
I know about the generalization. I was replying to her comment (and maybe I’m mistaking her analysis here) about white guys in this board being much more open to her own figure, while out in the streets it is not the same. Also, encouraging them to be more outspoken in social situations.
I’m just pointing out that this is internet and the dope, so she cannot necessarily be sure that everyone who finds her attractive here is a white guy (for all she knows, all the guys on the net that tell her she is beautiful are minorities).
I apologize, but I thought “cat calls” where another form of “hit on”. And also, pointing out that you may look at it biased, that the hitting on is more cultural than anything else. IE, if you’re in a group in which guys are not too outspoken and rather quiet, don’t expect most guys to hit on females around, whatever their background. If you’re in a group of outspoken guys (construction workers, friends that have hung around and go out together, whatever), then even the white ones will give attention. I know, it is confusing…
And like I think I mentioned in the other thread… I really hate people using “curvy” to imply overweight, fat, obese, thick, non-slender people. I’m not obese, and I’m damn curvy. The curviest girl I know from my belly dancing class is probably a 2 or less in dress pant. I envy her, I wish I had her curves (and flat belly!).
Give me an athletic girl any day of the week. If she looks like she could run up the side of a mountain I love it. The best is when they can do that and still have enough body fat left over to have breasts. Not to mention the athletic ones have the best asses.
The too skinny girls look like they are going to break and tend not to have any figure besides tiny. Once you go the other direction they start losing their figure and turn into round.
The commercial opens in a classy nightclub. A tall, skeletal woman with no visible fat or muscles orders “De Saronna on the rocks.” The handsome bartender reacts to the obvious panache of her order. The camera goes to the group of people she’s with. They’re happy, smart, hip, etc. The 99 lb. woman set her glass down. The bartender reaches for the glass, which holds only the ice. She waves him off, so she can suck on the ice cubes in a soft-core porn way. She looks sooooo cool, because her eyebrows are the only facial muscles she still can move. Of course she wants every last drop! That’s the most calories she’s had in three days!
Face it, folks. We’ve been trained to a certain perception of beauty by a few dozen rich fashion designers who like to see unnaturally tall, unnaturally skinny women. Obviously, those men are not the average heterosexual man. I suppose it’s sexist to say so, but most of them aren’t heterosexual at all.
Supermodels, like jockeys, torture themselves to keep that unnatural thinness in order to satisfy the twisted visions of the designers they work for. It’s physically harmful to starve themselves for a living.
Why do we continue to fall for this massive deception? It causes millions of real women to hate their bodies. It causes millions of men to wave aside perfectly wonderful women, because they aren’t freakishly thin.
I’m not sure it’s ironic so much as good advertising. If women were pleased with the way they looked and their sex lives, there’d be no need to pick up the mags (and read the ads) in the first place.
I’ve heard the term ‘model hot’ enough on the Dope and IRL to believe that yes, some men manage to look beyond their freakish height and eating habits to see the beauty underneath.
To paraphrase Bill Maher, ‘You gave us Twiggy, we want Twiggy.’ While America grows fatter, I think young men are getting a warped perception of what ‘thin’ and ‘chubby’ are, and it would almost be odder if they didn’t absorb the body shaming perpetuated by the celeb media (e.g. calling Gisele curvy, or Kate Winslet fat – remember when Alicia Silverstone was called Fatgirl?)
Well, I did say “arguably,” and perhaps “right” wasn’t the correct choice of word.
But I would feel guilty if I actively sought out an athletically fit woman, and especially if I encouraged her to remain that level of fitness ever after, while pudgy boney me just blobbed on the couch eating chocolate.
It’s more about the lifestyle difference that I’d feel selfish about, which is symbolised by the physical (un)fitness.
Well, there’s models, and then there’s models. Big time runway models tend to be skinnier and (IMO) extreme in hair, makeup, cheekbones, you name it. But girls who model for department stores or catalogs or hot rod magazines tend to still be slender, but not weirdly so. This could be what some guys have in mind when they say “model hot”.
I didn’t hear that at the time, but I’ve read one or two references to it since. Seriously, someone had a problem with this? Alicia Silverstone’s body may have been the best thing in that movie.
I’d rather see a really nice set of A cups than ANY pair of really humongus tits (1) or obviously fake ones (2).
While I can admire a nice set of C cup fakes, I’d still prefer the A cup reals.
(1) I don’t get the attaction to “huge for the sake of huge” tits. They do nothing for me.
(2) Hint: If it looks like you’ve got two perfect bowls tucked under your chest skin, or any other structure that doesn’t look natural or move when you move, you’re doing it wrong.
I pretty much like all of the body types in the middle, but don’t find the extremes of very low body weight for height and high body weight for height to be attractive.
So, I do like curves, but the woman must be OK with her body, and her body weight shouldn’t be an impairment to activities or health. Being groomed, pleasant, kind, and intelligent is more important than the exact details of her physical type.
That means I find about 90% of all women attractive.
I always used to quite fancy Jerry Hall and she had a nice personality aswell.
But when she took her kit off to appear in the stage version of the Graduate she looked like a bone rack.
totally unfanciable.
Sorry Jerry I like you lots,hope you dont ever read this.
In Prêt-à-Porter, the models walk the runway nude at the end. They looked emaciated. This really freaked me out because they most look really good with clothes on. So yes, count me as a vote for “some are too skinny.”
Another that leaps to mind: Gabrielle Anwar. When she was younger she looked fine, healthy. On “Burn Notice” when she wears a bikini, I wish someone would feed her.
I’m gonna go against the grain here and say we haven’t been trained thusly. The supermodel-skeleton is an ideal made for female consumption, not for male. I think culturally speaking our wires have been crossed. Certain signals are being broadcast to women to sell fashion. Women are misconstruing these as signals intended to arouse male attraction. Look at media that are pitched to males (i.e. porn or beer commercials). There is exaggeration of a different sort, but it definitely isn’t directed toward thinness or boyishness.
Anyway, I thought this trope was over in the mid-90’s. I thought the Problem That Has A Name is now girls trying to look like porn stars. There are still body image problems here, but at least straight women aren’t playing to the empty room of non-straight-male fashion designers.
To me, supermodel bodies are off-putting, not only because of the extreme thinness, but because of the extreme limb length, too. Decimeter after decimeter of evenly thin sticks protruding from the torso… make me think of insects. Take the same width proportions onto a 5’5" woman, and they don’t look near as bad. Quite good, in fact.
Petite frame, little fat, small boobs but some hips and ass is what I prefer.
I don’t think I’ve been trained to be attracted to unnaturally skinny women. Why can’t I just naturally like naturally thin women? I don`t think there’s anything sexist about saying most top male fashion designers are gay, either.
I know lots of very slim women and some unhealthily slim women who maintain their weight and look completely naturally. I would speculate that the vast majority of really thin women out there, as opposed to models or other professionals, are very slender or thin through no effort of their own. For instance, I’ve dated plenty of very slim women because it’s what I’m attracted to and none have ever been concerned about their diet or being fat because they don’t have to be. Some have been quite pleased with their body, while others actually did think they needed to put on some weight to look better. In either case, virtually every skinny woman I’ve known would have been at least somewhat hurt to be compared to a 10 year old boy, and are annoyed when they’re told they need to eat a cake. Why do people say that anyway? Would you tell a fat women with a piece of pie she doesn’t need the calories?
So anyway, my point is that you’re totally wrong to suggest that anyone who is model thin is torturing herself. Very few are; in fact, the women torturing themselves are the average and overweight women. And yeah, it’s awful that larger or even average women feel bad about their bodies, but don’t pick on skinny women.
I agree with this. There is this idea that slender women just need to eat a lot of calories and they will turn into curvy goddesses. Many would just have lots of flab hanging off their small frames.
There is only so much room to work within your body type. Best thing is to be healthy and learn to like yourself, IMHO.
