Just want to point out that statistics need to be taken with a grain of salt. I know a guy who died recently from lung cancer and emphysema. Lifelong smoker. But he was 84 when he died, still puffing away.
I’m gonna say “what is none, Alex”. Immortality is something that our AI overlords will have to figure out. I don’t believe that humans have that knowledge.
And, stopping smoking would help make UHC more affordable.
This is so far, the most silly argument I have seen posted on the SDMB. That I remember, anyway.
Remember, second hand smoke kills over 40K a year in America, and a good number of them are children.
The senior broker asked, “You must be crazy! How can you issue a life insurance policy to a 110-year-old?”
The salesman replied, “I carefully checked the actuarial tables and no 110-year-olds have died in the last five years.
This was a recurring theme when NZ did it, people crapping their daks, afraid that it might actually work. To borrow from Chomsky “the threat of good example”
that’s why I objected to banning smoking in bars–as long as I warn customers/employers that there’s smoking, they are free to enter or go elsewhere. Choice
Except when nobody was willing to make a no-smoking bar. So there was no choice. You could go to a smoky bar or you could stay home.
But once the non-smoking bar ice was broken, suddenly everyone realized there was more money in non-smoking bars than in smoking bars. Far more money.
Often society will settle into decidedly non-optimal spots and only the dynamite of government action can move society to something that’s better for everyone.
Raising the drinking age to 21 has been somewhat of a disaster. Back in the day, college kids drank, but they had adult supervision. Some of them even modeled adult behavior and drank in moderation.
Today, college kids drink. But they can’t drink where anyone responsible can see them. So they have completely unsupervised parties, “pregame”, drink excessively in frats, … Binge drinking is far more common than it used to be, especially among the young.
And a lot of them continue binge drinking after they can drink legally, because those are the habits they have learned.
I suspect the analogous problems occur with sex.
If the Baptist States of Americaduh weren’t all prude-like, kids could be taught to do the responsible-ish thing from the age the urge first appeared. Not have 3 or 8 years of secret under-the-table clueless gettin’ it on before they can come out into the light and talk about it with anyone older.
I do not use tobacco. I love that most bars and breweries are now no smoking. But every so often I’ll stop at this dark&seedy bar with dirty ashtrays everywhere. Typically I’m the only one not smoking.
I have a draft beer or two then head home, where my gf freaks out and tells me to shower pronto.
I never smoked. But I used to live in dark & seedy places like that back when smoking was the norm. Because those places had the best music.
It was quite the relief when non-smoking happened and then I didn’t have to get fully undressed outdoors in the snow then run naked from front door to shower upon my return.
I strongly favor a lower drinking age, and partially because it keeps it out of the shadows as you say. However, the drinking age was 18 when I was in college and I can assure you there was no “adult” supervision anywhere. We weren’t hiding anything, but there simply were no adults around.
Huh, when i was in college, we had cocktail parties run by adults that were very decorous, and we had keg parties run by students that were pretty wild, but had adults in the wings, and support for bringing really drunk students to student health services.
Other than a security guard in an office in some building far from the dorms, or a professor working late in their office, I don’t think there were non-student adults on our campus after dark. Maybe there was someone in the library?
I just learned to drink at home with family when I was underage.
But I’ll second what LSLGuy said above—when smoking was socially acceptable, it was unavoidable, and to those of us who weren’t willing to be around it, we were cut off from things like, for example, good live music. I suppose the question is who has to choose: smokers, or non-smokers? There is no separate but equal.
I still don’t support a smoking or drinking age above the age of majority. It’s ridiculous to be an adult without access to adult privileges. On the other hand, I’d be thrilled if nobody at all smoked and nobody drank to excess, while simultaneously having the freedom to do so. How to manage that is a trick.
In my darker moments I just imagine an instant death penalty, administered by any concerned citizen, for littering cigarette butts or packaging. That proposal might have a few problems of its own, though.
Define drinking “to excess”. When I drink, I drink an amount that satisfies my thirst. To me, I never drink to excess. I’m certain others would disagree, but I’m not gonna adopt their definitions.
If countries passed federal laws outlawing tobacco products people would cry like babies for a few days after a couple of weeks, it would start to quiet down and after a few months all of the ex-smokers would be thanking the government for out lawing smokes.
For me, “to excess” = “drunk (beyond mildly tipsy),” but I think a more reasonable definition would be “where the drinking causes harm to others or extreme harm to the self.” My cousin died of alcoholism, so that’s always my go-to example for “too far.” My husband drinks a lot—way more than I’m comfortable with—but he doesn’t drink irresponsibility or behave badly when drinking or anything, and can afford it, so I chalk that up to “my problem” and let him get on with it!
I’m sorry for your loss. That said, a good friend’s dad died in his 30s due to nutritional problems caused by his alcoholism. My friend is an alcoholic but he eats a healthy diet and takes a vitamin regimen formulated by his doctor in light of his alcoholism. He (and maybe I) will likely die of or with a cirrhotic liver but I don’t view either of us as drinking to excess.
My gf would say (and has said) the same about me.