I think I understand the disconnect. This type of thread often bogs down in arguments about the motivations for rape. On one side you have those that argue all rape is about power, and others that argue that rape is mostly about sex. I can not speak authoritatively, but as I understand it there are two main motives for rape:
Sexual desire. Basically those who think their sexual gratification trumps someone else’s consent. If they could be sure of getting sex without raping, they probably would. But to many of them women (or other people in general) are not completely real and don’t really matter. They rape because they see it as the easiest or quickest path to sexual gratification. The pain and suffering of the victim is meaningless to them.
Power/dominance/revenge. These are rapists that want to use sex to accomplish something else. Either punish someone or make themselves feel more powerful. They use sex to accomplish their goal. The pain and suffering are the point.
Mixed up in this is the fact that “rape is always about power” is true in the context that rape can only occur when there is some some imbalance in power (physical strength, a weapon, a drug, even knowledge).
So, what Shodan appears to be saying is that he doesn’t understand how these rapists could fall under either motivation. He doesn’t see how anyone could be sexually aroused by someone in this condition or how anyone can feel powerful by dominating them. I can’t really answer that, but then I also can’t answer why some people are sexually exited by the idea of being eaten by a giant pregnant fox, but I am sure you could find such people if you dig around the internet.
I agree with you up until the point where you assert that this is what Shodan said. Which, unfortunately, is where you began. The fact that you continue to refuse to see a distinction between what was said and clearly intended by it versus the conclusion that you have drawn from it is, I believe, why some people in this thread (and I will add myself to this group, now) insist that you aren’t discussing this rationally.
Nope, that’s not the disconnect. Nice try, though. That’s what SfG thinks it’s about. I agree that rape is usually about power, although the realist inside me thinks it’s also about being a successful reproductive strategy, and therefore a very predictable animal behavior.
That doesn’t matter, though. Shodan doesn’t say rape is about wanting to make fuck with sexy, sexy ladies, nor does he say he would be OK with it if it were about that (which is what SfG is retardedly insisting).
He said he could *understand *the motivation if it was about wanting the most beautiful women. Not that he excuses it, but he’d understand the motivation. This behavior described in the OP is not relatable in his experience. He may or may not believe that power is the ultimate goal in rape, but in either case, he doesn’t get it.
Or who genuinely do not realize that particular “no” means “no”. One of the reasons I hate bodice rippers is that it goes in the pile of “things which continue the notion that when a woman says ‘no’, either she’s being coy or she doesn’t know her own mind”. I’ve been in several situations (both sexual and otherwise) where I had to explain to someone, Sesame Street-style, that “when I say no it means, exactly, ‘no’”; most of them were confused and apologetic, a few refused to get the message (and got kicked out of my life). The rapist/abuser/whatever does not see himself as any kind of attacker, he thinks he’s doing what you want him to do, but you’re still left feeling like shit.
Noooo that’s not it at all. I found Shodan’s statement alarmingly juvenile but the thrust of the thread was such that i just ignored it. I guess if a guy rapes a hot chick he can always use that fact during sentencing to get things knocked down.. i mean hey judge.. look at that ass..
WOW.. that’s straight up SDMB. I simply can’t disagree with your analysis.. i have to mention that you’re obviously irrational and off your meds. Shodan’s statement is something I’ve heard usually from first year rookies when they happen upon an elderly rape.. most rapes have shit to do with what the victim looks like. Most have to do with the power to dominate.. and the ability to dominate and the means to dominate. Essentially he is saying that who would bother raping a mentally handicapped unattractive person.. how fucking seven year old is that??
Chicagojeff hit upon a possible reason why what **Shodan ** said was a hot button. Too often in the past the relative attractiveness of victim vs. accused rapist is used as some sort of argument against the fact that rape could have happened, i.e., “why would anyone want to rape you?” as though it’s a compliment. It’s closely akin to the “he doesn’t have to rape anyone, women throw themselves at him” defense.
I’ve always been somewhat skeptical of this claim. If it’s not primarily about sex, aren’t there lots of easier, less felonious ways to dominate an old lady? Black Ops? Ultimate Frisbee? Staring contest?
Shodan: I don’t get it. I don’t understand rapists. If their motivation were X, I could kinda understand, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
SFG: You idiot! You don’t understand rapists!
Shodan: I know. I said that.
SFG: My god! You monster. You jerk! You don’t understand rapists!
He’s not claiming rapists think X or want Y or are Z. He’s saying he doesn’t understand them because they aren’t conforming to even the shred of motivation that would at least make some sense, no matter how ugly or horrible that shred of motivation would be. Attacking him for not understanding them is insane–most people do not understand rapists.
I doubt it. As the response from one poster in particular shows, it really isn’t possible to post in such a way as not to be misunderstood.
I don’t see how you get from “I don’t understand the motivation” to “it didn’t happen”. Or even how saying that I don’t see why someone would want to rape mentally disabled women is a compliment to the women.
People have hot buttons about rape, no doubt about that, but sometimes they go off no matter what.
I’m glad to see you’re willing to engage in a rational discussion yourself, here. A nice start.
And when that happens, do you then tell them what sick, depraved, morally reprehensible people they are for the thought?
Why is this such a complicated concept? I think the vast majority of us in this thread cannot understand at all the desire to want to hurt or disregard the will of another person. However, many of us understand physical attraction as it relates to sexual activity.
The way I read Shodan’s statement (and I don’t presume to speak for him – I think he’s made his position clear) is, “I can see how someone who lacks morals and/or who is mentally ill might take normal physical attraction and have it cross way over the line into a horrible crime, since that person lacks regard for others. I cannot see how that happens where even physical attraction doesn’t exist.” For a lot of us, sex IS tied to physical attraction, so it’s hard to put ourselves in the mind of someone for whom that is not the case. Yes, I get that many, many rapes have little or nothing to do with physical attraction because that’s what I’ve been told; I’m simply unable to comprehend in any way the psyche of someone who operates that way.
We had one poster, early in the SDMB internet days, who sincerely thought that ANY woman would be flattered by the attentions of ANY man, because he’d grown up seeing this notion played out in the popular books and movies and TV shows of the time. And he was pissed that women have the right to say “no” these days, and to make it stick.
I don’t know what the solution is, unless society approves of women carrying a taser and using it on men who won’t take no for an answer.