What’s not to be curious about? Even if you don’t like him as a person, he’s doing something the vast majority of people have never done. And gender is a really important facet of our identities.
I don’t have any direct experience with transgenderism, but I have to admit to wondering about my own gender identity a lot. I wear my “female” identity just like I wear my nationality or my occupation. It’s “me” enough that I don’t have a problem identifying as such. But I can also imagine waking up one day and finding it doesn’t fit anymore. So I both get and don’t get transgenderism. Maybe one day I’ll fully get it.
I’m fascinated by the idea that maybe one day, it won’t be so weird to do what Bruce Jener is doing.
I don’t think the planet would stop spinning if this were to happen.
Leafan, I can understand your struggle. My only advice to you is that you be supportive of your child. Our kids have their own path, and more than anything they deserve our understanding and support. We don’t have to fully understand what they are personally dealing with but we can be their dads when they need it. Best of luck I your own struggles.
Probably. Then I’d have a connection and some way to understand it. But as I have no children, nor any family members or friends going through this, I can’t even begin to comprehend it.
I’m trying not to dismiss it, but it’s hard when it’s like an alien language in its complexity, and easier for me to just leave it alone.
I recognise it’s tough for people going through this. But all I can do is acknowledge, not empathise.
This is the strategy I long ago created for whatever my children may ask of me in the future. It may be of use:
I love you and always will, regardless of what you are going through.
I will support you in your decisions, I only ask that they be informed decisions. Let us educate ourselves together so we know the best choices are being made.
There is no obstacle before you that hasn’t already been conquered by someone else. Together we will learn how to succeed as well. You are not alone.
Reinforcement, education, support: a winning combination for everyone.
My step-sister recently finished her transition at the age of 54 or so. It hasn’t been easy for her but it will be easier for people like her now that a celebrity has come out. That’s why I give a fuck.
My step-dad, never the most tolerant of individuals, is having a tough time. He’s trying though. If someone like Jenner had come out twenty years ago, maybe it wouldn’t have been so hard for him. That’s why I give a fuck.
This is important. For a lot of the viewers, it will be preaching to the choir. Maybe it will open a few minds. That’s why I give a fuck.
Imagine how much further along we would be with gay rights if Rock Hudson had come out in the 70s.
I watched the show with great interest, as I have a close friend whose story parallels Jenner’s almost exactly. He is a father of 3 grown sons, and his marriage broke up when his crossdressing was discovered by his now ex-wife. (she thinks it was just a matter of crossdressing.) On the surface, he is a very masculine man, with very masculine interests, hobbies and occupations.
He is in the early stages of transitioning, with the help of his psychologist, and recently joined a support group for transgendered persons, where he is able to dress as a girl without fear. When he describes the peace, the rightness he feels when he is dressed, my heart melts. I can only dimly imagine how it must be to feel so fundamentally wrong in your physical body.
At any rate , she has my support in her changes. There is going to be a lot of fallout, particularly from her family. Like Jenner, she is only sexually attracted to women, so not only is she transgendered, but a lesbian as well, which will only complicate the issue for her family.
In some ways this issue is so simple, and then in others it is so complicated, with new questions at every turn.
Thanks guys. This is going to be one wild and whacky ride. My son is not effeminate in any way, and is (to me) completely male, I guess just like Bruce Jenner. So it’s baffling. Really baffling, Completely baffling,
This is a bizarre statement to me. You can only empathize with situations you or your friends/family have experienced? If you hear about a landslide in some far-off country but you or your family and friends have never been in a landslide, do you think, “hm, that is a very alien situation to me, I have no comprehension of what that might be like so I guess I just don’t really care”?
That’s probably a poor example because I wouldn’t suggest that everyone get worked up over every single natural disaster in the world. But the point is that by listening to other people’s descriptions of their experiences, you can understand those experiences. You don’t need to have actually gone through something in order to understand what it is like or why it is important.
Obviously we care more about things that are close to us. That’s why often it helps, when trying to empathize with a situation, to imagine that it has happened to you or someone close to you. However, in your case, you appear to have done this exercise and then shrugged and said, “Nope, that’s just an imaginary person, not actually me, so I still can’t manage to care.” To me, that is bizarre.
Leaffan, good luck with your kid. I haven’t gone through this exact situation myself but having a parent who strongly disagrees with certain life decisions I’ve made, my biggest suggestion would be to simply make sure he (she?) knows that he has a parent who loves him no matter what, and if you disapprove of or disagree with his choices, keep it to yourself in the interests of maintaining a strong parent-child relationship. No “I love you even though” or “This is hard for me BUT I love you” – just “you’re my kid, I love you, end of.” (If that sounds harsh, the harshness is directed at my own parent and not at you, trust me.)
I know I’ve mentioned Bibiana Fernández before. She became famous as a vedette under the name Bibí Andersen, a dancer/singer in a type of musical. Blonde, pretty, legs up to here…
And then it turned out that “she” was a Manuel in her ID. Oh my. The insults. Referring to her in the neuter on account of being “neither male nor female”. Eventually she was able to get recognized as a woman (I’m not sure if she was the first person to be granted a legal sex change in Spain), got married as a woman (by this time the storm was in a teacup: some people tried to make a ruckus but got silenced with “if she’s a woman, she’s a woman for everything! Is she a woman? Yes. Shut up.”)…
I’m sure that being transgender isn’t easy for anybody, but all those bullets she took led to social and legal changes and helped pave the way for others. Sometimes it takes a lot of cojones to be a woman!
GuanoLad - have you watched the Bruce Jenner interview? I ask because in some ways, I was in a similar position to you. Although I am a strong and vocal supporter of gay and lesbian rights, and have been for many years, I have always had difficulty with transgenderism. Although I tried to be empathetic and supportive about transgender issues on a political level, I too found it impossible to comprehend. I was only vaguely aware of what was going on with Jenner from tabloid headlines, and didn’t even know about the interview until I read about it online this morning. I was curious enough to watch the entire thing (it’s available online from ABC) this afternoon. It was a turning point for me. I think I actually do get it now in a way that I never really did before.
It occurred to me that the next time I hear about a transgender issue, or something affecting a transgender person, I will put it in the context of what Bruce Jenner said and is going through. For me, and I assume for many other people who watched the interview, Jenner will be the “person I know” who is transgender. He (and I use the term because it’s what he requested for the interview) came across as a genuinely likeable person, someone that I respect and admire. I recommend that you watch the interview if you haven’t already. Maybe it will help you to comprehend, the way it helped me.
Leaffan, if you haven’t watched the interview, I recommend it to you at well. It touches on the issue of being very masculine and transgender, and spends a substantial amount of time on the issues of parents and children (Jenner’s mother, sister, and four of his children appear). I wish you the best, and hope that Jenner’s story helps to move society as a whole to a better place on transgender issues so that your family can reap the benefits.
Yes, that’s what “empathy” means - to understand through some amount of mutual experience. While “sympathy” means you don’t have to have experience, but acknowledge and offer support anyway. But with transgender issues I have trouble even with sympathy. Not because I don’t recognise their struggles, but because it’s utterly alien to me. I don’t even know what I should think, and it’s annoying that the popular opinion is I should think a particular way, a way which I cannot allow myself to agree with yet (or ever, because I don’t and maybe can’t understand it). I need something to connect with, but I don’t think I ever will.
You’ve summed it up well. I haven’t seen the interview, it hasn’t broadcast here yet. I think it’s on tonight.
Being a Media-Celebrity-Ignoramus, I had no idea who you were talking about re Bruce. After checking out the links, I STILL have not much of a clue.
But transgenderism within families I DO have some experience with. Not personally, but my daughter’s bestest friend’s Mum began transitioning to male a few years ago, and it’s a roller-coaster ride for all concerned.
Leaffan, you know that most of the board are willing to lend an ear to you when needed mate…apart from a few fuckheads in this thread.
Good luck and come here when you need some space to chat.
Leaffan, I would take comfort in the fact that that your son feels secure enough to reveal this now, and be able to transition while still young. I do think we’ve reached a turning point on this issue, and it will only get easier with time.
I also remember from reading here that you have always been a loving father to your children, and that support will mean a lot in the coming days.
Bruce Jenner became a joke and a sell out when he joined up with the Kardashians. The latest media hype is just sad.
I could care less if he wants to chop off his dick and grow boobs. More power to [DEL]him[/DEL] her. Please, please STFU up about it. OK? I don’t want to see those headlines every time I open a news site.
