The problem is that this position isn’t one that’s been around a long time. It’s more a teammate type of role because they have more work than people. So it isn’t like someone used to have this job then was promoted. It’s more that they have gotten more work than people and need more employees. Great idea though that I will definitely keep in mind.
Argh :smack:
Never, EVER ever (ever, ever) tell the company you are trying to negotiate with what your current salary is.
Never, EVER ever!!!
They now know how little they can get you for. It’s like a poker hand…and you tipped it and showed them what you’ve got. Even if you get an increase by switching to this job, they will know it and will take it into account come raise time.
I have switched jobs enough times to know, and in my negotiations for my current job I was asked point blank what my current pay rate was. I told them that information was between me and my current employer, and that I was there to discuss what they were willing to offer me versus what I was willing to accept, and my current pay rate had nothing to do with that conversation. I ended up with a 10% increase in base pay rate, plus a 20% increase in average hours worked, resulting in massively larger paychecks from the OT (which was higher still because of the higher base pay rate). Also, I made it clear that I did not need to work for them. I didn’t say so specifically, but I kept the general tone along the lines of how they would benefit from my addition to their lineup, not the other way around, and that I might be willing to switch up my situation for their benefit, as long as it was worth my while.
So what to do now? Heavily stress that you’re interested in the opportunities available to you by working for them, but you’re not comfortable entering a new and uncertain job for the same pay rate. Perhaps it would be worth it now to tell them that your current pay rate is augmented by substantial bonuses/OT, but DO NOT tell them exactly what that is.
Good Luck 
I didn’t want to tell them, but every job website I go to prompts you for employment information and you must enter a salary. I could have maybe put $0 and then explained later.
It’s definitely true if you can avoid disclosing salary you should, but the reality I have seen lately is that with some companies if you aren’t disclosing that information you’ll never get past the filtering gateway to even get your information in front of a decision maker, so you either have to put a real answer in or take the risk that your application will be file-13ed because 50+ people are applying for a single position and they won’t want to schedule nearly that many interviews so people who couldn’t fill out the application correctly may be the first ones on the chopping block.
But if you actually make it to the interview stage and haven’t had to disclose it, sure, try to avoid doing so (but if they are very insistent about it then you’re in the same rock and hard place.)
I really appreciate everyone’s insight and opinion on this. I plan to call my HR tomorrow and basically explain I am interested in the job, skills line up, but the 0.94X is too low and I think my skills/experience make me worth 1.2X.
Perhaps I shouldn’t add this, but when we first spoke about the offer on the phone she said “Yes the offer is lower, but with the great benefits it’s about the same as your current pay.” At no time during this have I mentioned my OT bonus so perhaps I shouldn’t give specifics, but I want to reinforce that 0.94X is really like a 30%+ pay cut compared to my current job. So I plan to counter with 1.2X and anything above 1.1X I would probably take. I’ll report back here. Hopefully they let me know something soon after I counter because I am supposed to let them know next Friday.
Just tell them that with your current base pay + OT and bonus, you will need them to raise their offer by x% for you to even consider switching.
ETA: don’t worry about offending them…this is a negotiation…you apparently don’t do it very often…they do it everyday.
So I called and basically explained their offer was low and I would like 1.2X and 5% signing bonus (wishful thinking, but they are paying nothing for relocation so worth a shot). I explained my skills are a great fit with their company, blah blah. She said they base salary off of other employees in their company with similar experience. I suspect they do that then subtract 10+%.
She said she would get with “them” (not sure who them was or maybe she said the manager I forget) to see if they can meet me somewhere in the middle. Really wasn’t that difficult or awkward to ask and the conversation was in no way confrontational or anything. She understood but still tried to give the company line that the pay was in line with their employees etc. So I am hoping to hear something very soon.
No. They will simply tell you the offer is what it is and you can either take it or leave it.
This seems like it is a surprise for you for some reason. Let me ask you this question. If you hire a plumber to fix your toilet, do you pay him what you think is generous or do you pay what you have to?
More or less. Once you start working at the company, you have zero leverage. You can build leverage over time in the form of your experience and knowledge. But of course if you can find something better, by all means look into it. But chances are if you can find a higher paying job within a year, you didn’t negotiate your offer very well.
Isn’t it amazing how that is so freaking easy, and yet, I at least, built it up in my head as this crazy difficult thing that I could never figure out how to do. And then you do it, and its just so simple.
They are going to delay to test your commitment to the idea by making you wait now.
Oh, I agree completely. I just tend to view relationships as partnerships. In hindsight those should really be reserved for family, spouse, friends etc. Employer/employee is really how much we can take from the other. Loyalty and things like that really shouldn’t play into it. All about what you can do for me. That’s just a ideological shift for me to express this. At a subconscious level I have always realized this, but to say it out loud and act on it is different for me.
I consider myself to be a nice person and somehow I’ve got it twisted that asking for more money is “not being nice.” Completely wrong and I’m sure it’s costing a lot of people a lot of money. Things I’ve learned though:
- Be a shark
- Don’t be modest. Self-promotion isn’t necessarily a bad thing
- Do what’s in the best interest of me and my family
Can you expound on this? I told them I would let them know something by next Friday so you’re thinking they will wait until late next week to make me sweat it out?
While I don’t doubt some companies try to make ou sweat, never underestimate the slowness that people can operate under. Sometimes you get an emergency and put full attention to that for a few days then get back to the job offer…or maybe corporate is coming to visit. Their perception of time will be different from yours.
As a hiring manager myself, it is a complete hassle to have a job offer out there that hasn’t been declined or accepted. It really ties my hands - I cannot make an offer to someone else. So, as long as they haven’t recinded the offer you likely have some power.
The pay shouldn’t be in line with what their current employees are making…it should be in line with whatever the market compensation is. Their current employees may be paid below market.
LOL. Yup.
I still remember this one company I was negotiating with giving me a low offer and their logic was that it was in line with what the other employees were making and they couldn’t increase it without causing problems. Fine - except they seemed to think it was a valid excuse and I should accept the offer. I don’t give a damn what your other employees are making. I’m sorry your internal company circumstances does not allow you to make an offer that I can accept but IT IS NOT MY CONCERN! What does concern me is that your employees are underpaid…so I actually need MORE salary to counter the inevitable slide due to inflation in the future…not less.
Not as bad, though, as the one woman who made a really lowball offer (and I mean REALLY lowball) because she offered what she thought the position should pay (it was a new position in the company). Since my position was math based and not artsy like most of the other employees it should only pay about $25,000. She nearly had a heart attack when she found out I was making $70,000 and that position was really ‘1 -below’ the position she was searching for someone to do. I expecting at least $90K. Was a fun conversation.
So I finally got their counter offer back. I asked for 1.2X (where X is my current pay and they previously offered like 0.95X). They countered with 0.999X so they wouldn’t even give me what I make currently with base pay only. Said this is the best they could do to keep me in line with current employees with similar education/experience.
So I plan to call her today to tell them I don’t want it. With my OT and bonus at my current job, I would be taking a 20% paycut all for the stress of changing jobs, insurance, reproving myself to another team and more training and classes? No way. I hate my job but I’m not stupid.
Yeah, it’s not really your problem what the other employees make, and it’s frankly insulting to ask an applicant to take a pay cut unless they’re taking a step down.
My experience is that the company is always nicest and most considerate when hiring you – if they offer you a piddling salary at first, you’re not going to make it up in raises later.
Well you have to make the call. Some people would take the cut (which based on your previous comments is a cut from an average 1.175X down to 1.049X, a difference of .126X) because of the shorter hours. And if they changed jobs at all they would have the associated stress. And they might see the tuition reimbursement as additional compensation, and appreciate the chance to pick up a degree which adds to all their future earnings. But you are the only one who can measure how those things affect you.
Absolutely don’t take it.
What their employees currently make isn’t your problem, and only serves to show you how limited your salary would be working for them.
I had a prospective employer tell me that if they offered me the position for what I asked for then it would “cause a conflict”. I replied with, “Sounds like your problem, not mine. Why are salaries openly disclosed there?”
Don’t take a paycut. Not in this economy, and only ever in extreme circumstances otherwise. Remember, the only way an employer is able to show you that your work is appreciated is with monetary compensation. Forget all that employee of the month crap. It’s all about money. If they won’t give you the money, either they can’t afford it and are a weak company, or they refuse to pay it and therefore have a less than respectful view of the contributions their employees make.