Yep I am off to prison today, not for the reasons most go to prison i.e. commiting a crime - but because I have been asked to speak with inmates about addiction and the efficacy of AA. We have a program here in Connecticut that brings AA members into prisons to speak with inmates who wish to quite drinking or drugging. Essentially I am going to talk about the twelve steps and the difficulties people have applying them in their daily lives. Any AA’s out there who have done similar things?
How about anecdotes about sobriety?
I’ll be talking to only 9 guys today but if the group likes me I’ll go back on a monthly basis.
Good luck with your group today. That’s a really cool thing you’re about to do. I have 3 years clean. I know that’s not a long time at all and I can tell you this, sometimes I have dreams(nightmares?) that I’m using and I’ll wake up suddenly . Scares the shit out of me because these dreams are so vivid! Is this normal to dream about the dope like that? Will this cause me to relapse?
Those are healthy dreams. I still get 'em after over 15 years of sobriety. Not often, but on occasion. It shows I’m still an alcoholic. I’m cool with that.
Have fun in prison, Phlos! It’s a gas! Just tell your story, or that part of it you want to share. That ought to be enough. Of course, if you can relate jail or prison time, that will enhance your cred.
[Arlo Guthrie]
Jail time? Hey, maybe I can help you there…
[/Arlo Guthrie]
Damn. I was gonna ask you to report back to let us know if conjugal-visit sex is better than make-up sex.
One day, we’ll have an SDMB insider who can answer this question, once and for all.
I am not an Alcohlic but I love one.
One thing I would make sure to stress is that at an AA meeting everyone there is like you in at least one way. They are all fighting addiction. My biggest problem with going to Al-anon meeting was that I didn’t think I would fit in. Once I went it helped to know that people from all walks of life struggled with the same things I did.
And of course mention al-anon and al-ateen for the people in thier lives 
When the cons come back to the workshop from Alchohol Awareness courses, almost every one of them will ridicule the alchohol units limits.
I don’t know what system you use in the US, but here in the UK on unit of alchohol is about one shot of whisky, or a large glass of wine or half a pint of beer(proper beer - not that American flavoured iced water)
One of the first things that the counsellers will do is assess the magnitude of the drinking problems they encounter, just by asking what the subject would normally drink in a day or a week.
Apparently, consuming much more than around 21 units a week for a male is not considered healthy.
Unfortunately even I would regard this as a very modest amount, that’s less than two pints of beer a day, and it ain’t what I would call a problem.
The cons are often trying to outcred each other, bragging about how much they drink, but when they are presented with these safe limits, it always gets ridiculed and makes the counsellers task so much more difficult, fortunately one of our counsellors has had a real drink problem and does know what he his talking about and can relate well to the cons, the other counsellors seem to have read all about alchoholism in books and passed lots of exams, and have virtually no credibility with the prisoners.
I would suggest that when you talk to the cons, don’t stress those safe limits if possible and try to define harm in the way it affects their lives, and how they might might wish to reclaim their lives.
If they are genuinely listening, instead of attending in the hope of qualifying for parole, then perhaps you can get around to safe limits and abstinence later on.
Casdave, I expect Phlosphr will talk about what he used to be like, what happened, and what he’s like now. In addition he’ll probably share his experience, strength, and hope with them. Coming from the background of AA that he does, he’ll probably steer clear of telling them what they should do.
I don’t share my story with my patients, because of my particular situation. But I’ve shared with many others in low places before, and I generally tell them my story, then tell them if they feel they’re like me, and want to get what I have now (sobriety and happiness), they should think about doing what I did.
[warning: Anecdotal info!] I know a number of former inmates who have gotten and stayed sober, who first were inspired to do so by listening to visiting 12 step types, who came into the prisons and held meetings. They found this to be far more helpful than prison treatment programs and counsellors.
I have often wondered if talk of alcohol consumption and drinking games at the Dope bother or tempt recovering alcoholics who participate here.
Actually that American flavoured iced water has a similar alcohol content to UK beer (around 5%). UK lagers anyway - I don’t know about ale.
I’m not trying to tell Phlosphr his business, but when folk without much experience of prisoners come into jail, they often find that cons have a differant set of values and criteria from which they derive their logic.
Things like drug harm reduction where they will reduce the damage from one particular substance, and then believe it gives them more scope to damage themselves using another drug.
I see so many folk within and outside prisons who make their own assumptions and fail to listen, or just brush the prisoners POV under the carpet.
It takes a great deal of commitment and courage to be able to admit ones own failings to oneself, but even more to then stand in front of others and discuss them, and to go into an unknown environment and do this in front of complete strangers takes more than I think I would have.
I have to admire Phlosphr
Then you might enjoy You Are Going to Prison.
Seriously, you might enjoy it. I took it out of the library once. Lots of tips about how to make a shiv, not get raped, and where to stash stuff the cops didn’t find on you when you’re in the back of a cop car (hint: the space between the seat cushion and the back may not be the best place. They look there.)
Reading about drinking games and all the fun one derives from being intoxicated have no effect on me at all. 15 years sober on 9/23/05. Discussion of alcohol is never a problem.
I, too, will on occasion dream that I’ve relapsed. In my dream I’m always drinking from the little teeny bottles of booze which are really easy to hide. First time I had one I woke up feeling guilty and scared.
For some, the prospect of sharing the horror of alcoholism is too much to bear. But for others, bragging about that quart they could down makes them feel superior.
I had to do in-house detox for 4 days, then off to the half-way house for a month. After the month, I then went to another live-in facility nearer my home for 6 months. I do believe that the physical removal of self from my previous living situation helped enormously. They forced me to get a job or get kicked out. After I left the second half-way house I only attended AA for a few months to complete my judgment. I’ve not been to a meeting in 14 years. Never really liked the collective groups much, but I admit to being a snob. Yeah at that time I was a fat, ugly, sick and destitute snob. Ridiculous, eh? I know.
My life now is so fan-f***ing-tastic – a complete turn-around. I now have been married for 13 years, own a home, have two children, excellent credit, a long-term p/t job and can pretty much afford whatever I need. Geez, I thought for sure that I’d be dead by 35. Wouldn’t have been possible without AA in those early formative months. But I don’t need that type of support anymore. I realize that my lifestyle would quickly dissolve if I pick up just one of those teeny bottles. So there’s absolutely NO WAY that I’ll pick up another drink – ever.
Thank God (there…I’ve said it!) that he listened to my prayers.
I had a wonderful afternoon in Prison. Though I only met with one group it was a pleasure to share my story. Qadgop is exactly right, I went to the prison through a program designed to bring people from the outside into prison to share their story of getting sober and living clean to inmates who are trying to commit to a program. That is basically what I did, I was alone with 13 guys who were all alcoholics or addicts of one manner or another. Many of them have never been to an AA or NA meeting, and 3/4 of them were under 25 years old. I give them a lot fo credit for entering a program to try and stay clean. I basically went into the group room and introduced myself and told them my story. This particular group was used to having visitors like me come in once a month and share their stories.
Many of the guys had a difficult time accepting the fact that having even one more drink was too much…They did not understand that once an alcoholic always an alcoholic. That even though they may be clean the disease sits on their shoulder for ever, waiting like the cunning little monster it is to pounce back into your life when you let your guard down.
I wasn’t there to gain acceptence from the group however, I was there to bring my story to them and share with them that if I can make it anyone can. Granted I had a high bottom, I never went into a detox, or saw the inside of a jail cell, but that I was an everyday guy who became powerless over the drink.
I tried to convey to them that even though God is used in many of the 12 steps, and the recovery process, it does not have to be the Christian God as many see him. It can simply be their personal higher power - doesn’t matter of it’s Buddha, Muhammad, or the man on the moon - as long as they understand they do not have to go about this battle alone.
When I was finished with my story I could tell by the amount of questions I got that at least some of the guys wanted to stay sober… That is really all I wanted to do. When they get out and go to “The Rooms” they will see that there are hundreds of people in the program just like them, and no better a person to learn how to stay sober from, than a fellow alcoholic.
Thanks for sharing Rsschen… Keep Coming!
Way to go! We only keep it by giving it away.
Looking over this a 4th time, I’ll warn you all it’s long, boring and seemingly self-serving. I just had to praise Phil in my own disjointed way. And get it off my chest. There were no beers harmed in the production of this post. Trust me on that one!
I don’t want to bring any one down, so just take this as a passing post. AA just hasn’t ever “got me” in the few times I’ve tried. I beleive in God so the Higher Power is covered. see note below
I’m what I guess is a functioning alcoholic by definition. I hold a F/T job, pay my bills on time mostly (hard to choose between the weekend stockpile and the cable bill till the letters have red ink in the header) sometimes. But never been homeless nor in jail because of it. Never been divorced, don’t start bar fights and don’t do anything that pisses people off beyond what I may post here in the Pit for the most part.
I began drinking mainly to calm the mind-crushing speed and activity of my own brain. That’s being taken care of to a degree, but I still need the crutch. And even it doesn’t always help. You all have no idea how many times I’ve posted after being awake for 36-48 hours, drinking almost the whole time. And one or two of those didn’t cause a pile-on! Score!
I’m not going to delete any of this. I realize looking over it that it sounds like I should say “And with that I’ll pass”. Maybe I should hit a meeting. Even practicing drunks are allowed from what I hear. But I’ll rationalize and say I want to reach perfection. And perfection is achieved through practice. So I’ll just have another beer.
To try to make a point, let me say you’re doing a great service Phil. Hell, you’ve got me doing enough soul-searching to post this. That’s the most I’ve done about my addiction, other than spending money on it, in a few years. And God bless you if you’ve made it this far into my rambling. Maybe you’ll see how your decision to do this prison trip can affect someone states away that will probably never meet you. You too, Qadgop. I had no idea.
I’d like to say I’m putting the plug in the jug, as it were. I’m not. I’m going to finish off the brews in the fridge tonight since I have tomorrow off. I also have Saturday off, so I’ll drink to excess tomorrow as well. Who are we kidding here, right?
I’m ending this now. It’s gone far longer than I intended and I feel like it’s a “Look at me” post. For that I apologize. This isn’t the forum or arena that it should be said, but somehow I feel a bit better by writing it. And maybe hubris is what keeps me from deleting the whole thing. But there it is. Thanks for getting through it all if you’re still here.
Note
My sponsor, whom I still speak to regularly, and I began a small discussion one night a few years ago about religion/spirituality in the Higher Power idea. A man that only went by “Hobo Joe” and actually handed out business cards stating the same, summed up what he had to say as a Higher Power in AA. He was from, at that time, Tampa. Part of his story was how he used to as a drunk hitch rail lines to start a new life in a new city that he could ruin. (Those were his words). He still does it to this day that I know of to spread his message of hope to others, though this time sober, articulate and never in need of bail money. A great thing about AA is you will, guaranteed, eventually meet up with a person that should be in charge of the world. They’ve been there, they’ve seen the worst in humanity, and they have somehow found hope in it. They’ve not only seen redemption, but re-defined it. They’ve redeemed themselves to a level that even many of the best of us could never hope for, and they use their gift to save an individual. One at a time. With stunning results.
AA is, unfortunately, a thing abused by some to avoid a jail sentence. But of those 13 in the group spoken to, maybe a couple will make something of their lives. Maybe they can make it work. God knows I hope I can someday.
[///]End sappy post[///]
He said that what he found is the Higher Power mentioned doesn’t have to be as
I went to Alabama’s Julia Tutwiler women’s prison once. A friend of mine and his wife kept twisting my arm to go with them. It was some kind of religious function where people from the outside were supposed to mingle with the inmates, alla that. I’m not religious, but I finally agreed to go with them one night, and I’m glad I did.
There were about 25 visitors there, and a roughly equal number of prisoners were brought into the room. As far as I could tell, most of the other visitors mingled with each other and the prisoners mingled with other prisoners.
When they seated us to watch some slide show, other visitors sat in one section and the prisoners all sat together. Except me. I went over and sat by a woman inmate about my age, instead of with the other visitors.
It was weird at first. When I introduced myself, she said, “I live here.”
I nodded and told her my name again. She said, “I’m an inmate.”
I nodded and told her my name yet again. She said, “You don’t understand! I’m a prisoner.”
(Like I couldn’t tell from the white blouse and blue pants that she was a prisoner.)
So I said, “Yeah, that’s cool” and told her my name again.
Then she told me that most of the people that visit for affairs like this one are afraid of the prisoners and stay to themselves. After I got her convinced that I wasn’t afraid of her, we chatted for a while. She was in for armed robbery. She and her boyfriend were “doing good” robbing gas stations around Mobile, then something went sour and he shot somebody and there she was in Tutwiler.
I think maybe she’d have liked a pen-pal, but I didn’t need that in my life at the time.
Anyways, if any of you who haven’t been ever get a chance to visit a maximum security prison, go for it. You’ll see some stuff and learn some things, and it’s worth it.
Ok Duffer - when you open this up in the morning or whenever you do open it up… here are some thoughts for you:
You are no different than any other garden variety high bottom drunk. Think about that - “High Bottom” means you have not gone to jail, or have a DWI, or lost a wife, child etc…etc…
That was me as well.
But one day, someday, it will catch up to you, I guarantee it.
When I quit I just started going to meetings, and in the beginning I went to 90/90. Which is 90 meetings in 90 days.
Hear me now - meetings are your medicine, and when you are ready, they will help. Because you will enter a meeting and hear someone talk about YOU. They may be telling their story but it will sound like they are talking about you. Yes, our stories are very much the same.
The Irony of AA is that for us alcoholics, talking to other alcoholics seems to be the only thing that works to keep us sober because sometimes we are the only ones who understand. Case in point:
At a meeting last evening a man was talking about how he told his wife he had quit drinking but did not have the time to go to meetings. She thought he was being honest, and that he was not drinking. That was until she found Vodka in a shampoo bottle, and in various water bottles hidden around the house. At this point in his story a woman in the back of the room began to sob. She was in the midst of her 90/90 and said she had no idea other people hide alcohol. She thought she was alone, but she soon found that she was in a room of people exactly like her.
Us alcoholics are very smart indeed. Look at the good doctor Qadgop. However, you cannot be forced into the program you must find it for yourself. And for heavens sake stop the pitty party Duffer. Go out and meet some people justlike yourself, and enjoy some clarity of mind before it drives you mad, and you find out what the insanity of the disease can be all about.
I got faith in ya.
I facilitated AA, Al-Anon, and Al-a-teen groups for over ten years- I was/am not an alcoholic, but my father is, and when I went into counseling as a profession, I chose to volunteer in substance abuse- hence the time spent as a facilitator. I’ve said this before on the boards, and I’ll say it again- AA is a great program, and it works, but it’s not for everyone. If you’ve tried AA in the past without success, it may be that you just weren’t ready, or that the groups just weren’t the “right mix” of people. Or it may be that AA simply isn’t for you. When you reach a point in your life that you’re ready to try again, I strongly recommend Rational Recovery as an alternative. But just from your post, I hope that you decide to seek help sooner rather than later.
And I’ll join in with the props for Phlos- I worked as a therapist on a forensic unit for a long time, and it’s really an entirely different world. It takes a strong person to walk in, hear those gates lock behind you, and not suddenly change your mind.
So glad to hear it went well! Big Ups to you! I used drugs all my life from the time I was @17 on a regular basis. I’m blessed to be alive.God was truly watching over me at times and thats’ no bullshit.Life is so much better without the regret, the fucking chaos that it brings. I learned to love myself. I found out that I’m a much cooler person without that shit. And I have money to spend on things I need now. God Bless You Phlosphr and keep doin what you’re doin. Thanks for letting me share.