So, is Dr. Ben Carson an idiot?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Ben Carson used to be a hero of mine. Not just because he was sexy as hell, either. It was the fact that he was sexy AND a freakin’ neurosurgeon!

So, lately, he has been saying dumb shit. I mean, really dumb shit about how marriageshould only be for straight people, because God designed it that way, blah, blah, blah.

So, this is where I get stuck…

I know better than to think that religious people are dumb. Many religious people I know are some of the smartest people I know, so I’m not one of those people who say, “Oh, you believe in a sky daddy so you are a dummy”.

Like Neil deGrasse Tyson once said, there are top scientists out there who are Christians, although they may be in the minority. But until we can say there are NO top scientists out there who are Christian, we look pretty silly dismissing Christians as dumb.

Ben Carson is a fucking brain surgeon. Clearly an intelligent guy.

But how can we see him say such dumb shit and not begin to think he must be kind of dumb somehow?

Right? I know Richard Dawkins wrote that people can be very smart, but still be deluded. I get that. But I am listening to Dr. Carson break down his reasoning, and it doesn’t sound like delusion, it sounds like stupidity. I mean, why did he throw in bestiality and NAMBLA when making his point about gay people. That is just retarded and isn’t something that would be said by even a deluded smart person.

Someone help me understand this.

And, by the way, I do admit I have a bit of a problem with this topic because I, not having gotten as much formal education as I would have liked, tend to really look up to those who are very accomplished. But, when I catch them doing or saying really dumb shit, I tend to want to tear down the pedestal I built for them. I notice it all the time, even on this board, and I realize it is not fair on my part. But once I catch someone I thought was smart doing something really dumb, I just get so disillusioned!

Anyway, I digress. My question is, how can Ben Carson be both so smart and so dumb.

2

It’s not uncommon for people to be smart and sometimes even brilliant in some areas but not so smart and sometimes even downright stupid in other areas. The classic is someone who is “book smart” but has no common sense. There are other vversions. The classic version may or may not be the case with Carson, although you’d think someone who is angling to be a national political contender should have common sense enough to realize that comments like that are going to be a liability. Also sometimes people who are high achievers become surrounded by admirers and yes-people and then loose touch (or fail to establish it) with people who may not see, or at least admit to see, the world the same way they do. So they get used to saying what ever they want and as far as they can tell no matter what they’re talking about every one thinks it’s brilliant. The emperor usually doesn’t have NO clothes, they have some really nice ones but just not a full suit.

3

I don’t think he’s dumb, but he’s certainly ignorant in some areas. To say that there are no hungry people on the streets because “we fixed that” shows that he’s either out of touch with the common man, or willfully ignorant of the truth.

4

Ha, that is funny, Chefguy, because I didn’t know he said that, but if he did, then that is one thing I actually agree with. I don’t think hunger is a big issue in this country anymore.

Maybe nutrition is a problem, but hunger? Churches and food kitchens cook for free, and I know from experience, throw out a ton of food, or it will rot. After the homeless/hungry come and eat, there is tons of food left over.

Our local grocery stores donate so much bread and donuts and such that we have to beg people people to please, PLEASE take some more with you. They often refuse, knowing they can just come back tomorrow for more.

A case of Ramen noodles costs about 2 dollars and some change. A CASE.

So, yeah, I may be ignorant too, on that one. Maybe you can enlighten me.

But the problem I have with Ben is that he wasn’t speaking out of ignorance in that statement about marriage. Ignorant means you haven’t gotten the information. He has the information about marriage and gay marriage and equal rights. He has the info and he chooses to still act dumb. That is stupidity in my opinion, and not ignorance.

5

He is a devout 7th Day Adventist. He is following the teachings of the religion. So your real question is how can smart people blindly follow their religion. Ron Paul is a Duke University trained obstetrician who doesn’t believe in evolution. It’s not that uncommon.

6

Do you think of your auto mechanic as exceptionally intelligent? Mechanics have to be pretty smart to do their jobs. But if your mechanic were to say something stupid about gay marriage, would you be shocked?

Just think of Ben Carson as a brain mechanic. He knows his brain parts backwards and forwards. But he can still be a stupid person in most other respects. I also think intelligence can promote a kind of arrogant wackjobbery in certain personality types. It promotes a “I’m smart and therefore ya’ll can’t tell me anything I don’t already know!” attitude.

7

Did you read the OP?

ETA: monstro, you make a great point about the mechanic. I guess I was truly razzle dazzled by the neurosurgery. It is one of those things that I associate with genius.

8

Personally, I love how Republicans have gotten off the “No political experience? Black? He’s pushing to the head of the line and you folks are creaming in your jeans over this black messiah…” thing. Now being black and having no political experience is a good thing.

9

Well, that was a short lived presidential hopeful.

10

I’m willing to bet that Carson IS a pretty smart dude. I bet he’s got a high IQ, had really great grade and test scores in school, and has impressed people around him
his entire life.

But as comprehensive as those metrics are, they don’t paint a completely global picture of who he is.

Maybe Carson has a deficit in critical thinking that was never addressed in school. Not everyone is taught this skill, first of all. And secondly, maybe when one is strong in other areas, weaknesses become hidden or not so important.

11

I did. Your point? My point was that he isn’t just generically religious, he follows a very specific form of religion. If you didn’t know the tenets of his particular sect his views may seem out of left field.

12

Following the tenets of a religion is not some free pass. There are religious traditions that inspire intellectual curiosity and critical thinking, and there are some that do not.

In any case, one can be very good at science, but very poor at other forms of critical thinking. Likewise, one can be very good at science but have a narrow and limited range of intellectual curiosity and engagement.

13

What in the world are you talking about? Seventh Day Adventists have the same position on gay marriage as many “generic Christians”. They cite the same bible verses, Leviticus, etc. But, that’s beside the point, because as I made clear in my OP, I understand Christians who are anti-gay marriage. I do NOT understand Mr. Carson lumping gay marriage in with bestiality and pedophilia. That smacks of stupidity, not religion.

14

I would suggest watching “A Place at the Table”, if you get the chance. IMO, lack of nutrition equates to hunger. The body and mind can’t sustain itself on donuts, bread and other empty-calorie, sugar-laden foods. But that aside, we help pack weekend “backpack” lunches for school kids here in Portland. It’s an all-volunteer effort that relies on food and money donations and is presently feeding some 200 kids lunch on the weekends. Why is that? Because there is not enough food in the home to go around. Kids who come to school hungry don’t learn. Even with that effort, it still only scratches the surface of food shortages for children.

15

Idiot?

No.

Asshole? Oh, yeah.

16

People don’t starve to death in the US anymore, I would wager they’re more likely to freeze to death, but they certainly go hungry. Millions don’t know where their next meal is coming from. They may rely on food stamps or food pantries, which are overwhelmed in the “new economy.” They may scrounge enough for a value burger at McDonalds, but what about tomorrow? Some kids only get to eat school lunches, and might not have food over the weekend, as Chefguy says. People are left wanting. Dr. Ben Carson didn’t just speak from ignorance (I read in my spam mail that homos are murderers!) he was callous and dismissive. It’s no big deal for him, he’s part of the 1%, he’s entitled. He doesn’t need to change. But it does not win over bleeding heart liberals to the Republican cause.

17

Maybe it’s fear? Fear of change, and a perceived threat to the way of life that he knows, that clouds his critical thinking?

I also agree with other posters saying that there is quite a difference between knowing a lot about a particular subject area, and being trained in critical thinking skills. He should hang out here for a bit, it’s excellent training. :wink:

Sometimes I’m suddenly confronted with people who are just not used to a certain way of thinking. Among most of my close friends, saying “cite” (the Doper way) is a pretty normal thing to do, in a friendly debate. But sometimes you suddenly find yourself among people who barely even understand that concept, even though they might be scientists. They know about science, they just don’t know about broader issues, about arguing, logic, reasoning, that sort of thing. It can be surprising. You might say: “that’s a slippery slope argument, it’s not very persuasive”, and they will have no idea what you’re on about. They could still perform very well on an IQ test.

18

I’ve wondered about this many times, because it truly puzzles me. My sister is very intelligent and yet still religious. I’ve met some of her friends from her church and they are, likewise, shockingly intelligent. These aren’t WBC rubes; some have Ph.Ds from top-tier Ivies in fields that I dodged in college, like math and physics, because I was too dumb for them. And yet, they all believe that some guy survived for three days in the belly of a large fish.

The best I can figure is that once you’ve been indoctrinated into a certain ideology at youth, it sort of becomes your default position, and you evaluate new information in relation to that core orientation.

In other words, it seems to be very hard for them to step back and look at their religion objectively. It just becomes a way of life to try to tortuously reconcile conflicting information, rather than throwing out your old belief system.

19

If Isaac Newton could believe in things that we think today are stupid (like alchemy), there’s no reason smart people today can’t hold beliefs that will look stupid in the future.

20

Absolutely. Religion is like many other bad habits, in that is usually has to catch a person in the person’s youth in order to adhere.

I think about this every day, including just moments ago. Even in childhood I was sceptical: “This stuff can’t be real!” One of the most intelligent people I have ever known, a highly literate, articulate architect in Manhattan, also (to my way of speaking) completely succumbed to said indoctrination. She’s a voluntary (and perhaps “technical” to some extent) virgin at age 30-31, among other things.

Talking to her is fascinating. In some ways, her name might as well be “Cognitive Dissonance.”

And didn’t somebody from Ron Paul’s campaign staff, perhaps in 2008, issue a statement that no, Paul is not a creationist?