The OP is looking for ways to stay together, so we should help him do that regardless of what each of us personally would do in this situation.
Staying together for the kids is not always better, so you should think about what minimum level of relationship makes sense for that. If you stay together but fight all the time, it’s not better for the kids. I would say the minimum acceptable relationship for the kids is one where you treat each other with civility and respect regardless of if there is any love. Living together as respectful roommates may be a better environment for the kids than being divorced. But if you end up snipping and fighting all the time, you’re probably harming the kids more than if you get divorced.
I posted earlier about ways to remove privacy in the marriage. Those steps may seem overbearing, but this is being done after the fact. She has proved herself to be untrustworthy. She needs to rebuild it. Removing privacy in the marriage would serve two purposes. One, it would provide motivation for her to stay true to the marriage. It’s not a punishment. Rather, it’s to provide motivation through accountability. Much like an ex-con has to visit his parole officer and take drug tests, the accountability can help to keep the person on track. Two, it will help him suppress those wild thoughts. If he can account for her whereabouts and can see all her communication, it will be easier for him to truly accept that she is staying true to the marriage and help him move past this.
I don’t think this was very helpful. Yes, they should both get tested for STDs, and yes, he should consult an attorney for information on his options, but I don’t think he needs any help feeling bad right now - he’s got that covered.
Given how easy it is to cheat using the internet, I think those statistics are much lower than the reality.
Sounds like it should be simple; it’s not. Relationships aren’t simple. Kids aren’t simple (well, you know what I mean). The act of divorce is simple, but deciding that’s what you’re going to do is definitely not.
Hey, I’m not arguing with you. I am married. I have kids. I once had a brief affair that my wife discover 8 years after I ended it because I too left my email open.
It’s been 3 years since the discovery. We’re still together, but it’s not great to be honest. I can’t leave my kids.
Does anyone else think it’s wierd that some in this thread get bent up about reading thier spouse’s e-mail or having thier spouse read thiers? That seems crazy to me… I wouldn’t care one bit if my wife read my e-mails and she wouldn’t care if I read hers. It just seems so foreign to me when I see people bitch about privacy from thier spouse. I can’t imagine being married to someone AND caring if they read my e-mails.
There are much better discussion forums than SDMB for dealing with infidelity. I would happily post the name of a couple sites here, but I’m not sure if that’s allowed.
Google “Surviving Infidelity Message Board”. Talking about it with people who know all the ins and outs, and who have been through the nightmare of infidelity can truly save your ass, and maybe your marriage. At least give it a look. You’re going to go through some serious shit (such as the anger stage), and it will help to know that it’s normal.
BTW, most statistics I’ve seen claim infidelity rates are well over 50%…infidelity involving one or both spouses at some point in the marriage. Some say as high as 75%.
Seek help beyond a counselor…it’s too soon to even bother with one right now, and there is a lot you need to know about selecting the right counselor for you. There are a lot of bad ones out there who won’t deal well with infidelity specifically. They’ll want you to “move on”, or “get over it”. It doesn’t work like that, no matter what anyone tells you.
Your relationship with your wife is permanently changed. You won’t ever trust her like you did before. That’s over. She has a lot of work to do, and a lot to learn about infidelity herself…and what allowed her to make the poor choices she made. She’ll do the work if she wants to save the marriage.
One thing to keep in mind: She didn’t cheat because of any of your shortcomings. She cheated because of HER shortcomings. Namely, one or more character flaws.
That one really pisses cheaters off, because they tend to justify their shitty behavior by telling themselves how mistreated or neglected they were…how they deserved to do what they did. There is NO excuse for cheating…not even being cheated on.
Anyway, visit the website. Read books. You’re about to learn that infidelity has many facets, and is much more complicated and destructive than is commonly believed by people who haven’t been through it.
Given the context, it was brave of you to admit that. If the OP can see that normal people cheat and sometimes they’re forgiven (or, sometimes not), that will give him the courage to do what he wants to do, instead of merely what he feels obligated to do.
Actually, my best friend gave me a visual very much like this. During a time of particularly horrible mental and emotional instability, I was able to refer to it like a compass when nothing else made sense. It hurt like hell every time I thought about it, sure, but I am so happy I had a constant and vivd reminder of where the shelter and relief were NOT.
If my partner cheated on me. I don’t think I could ever sleep with her again, at least for a very long time if ever. I just honestly don’t know how I could after something like that.
My advice: skip over everything that **toofs **and **terentii **say in this thread. It appears to me their posts are either extremely unhelpful or drastically skewed based on their own experience. I applaud you for your willingness to work it out. Whoever said that a kid would be better off without your wife because she cheated is just silly. Unless she is abusive to them, of course they are better off with her (and you). They should never, ever know about it. That they would be better off without her because she cheated is just completely unsupportable.
Also, for what it is worth, I have known more than one couple who lived through infidelity and had far more than a “marriage of convenience.” They had real marriages. Actually, shockingly, I know one couple where not only did the woman have an affair, she shot – and killed – the wife of the man she was having the affair with. After she served years in prison (and got out), her husband took her back! They are still together. And they don’t even have kids, so it wasn’t for the kids. That is, obviously, extreme and out there and I sure as heck would not have taken her back. But I would absolutely consider taking my husband back if he had an affair, if he was sorry and genuinely wanted to work things out. I wish you the best in dealing with this very difficult situation.
The operative word there is “may”. None of us know the totality of the situation, and it may or may not be better for her to be out of their life depending on the circumstances. The choice remains his.
That’s assuming that they never hear about what happened, or happens in the future. I had a friend in high school that walked in on mom and her BF doing it on the living room floor. Tell me that doesn’t affect her relationship with her kids, and doesn’t speak to her parenting abilities. Of course this is very likely not the case here, but we don’t know that.
Many a late night argument between parents are overheard by their kids, and that may be all it takes for them to form opinions about the state of their parents marriage. They may take cues from that in any number of ways. They could hate the mom for cheating, see cheating as something that just happens, or anything else. What happens if they find out, even years after the fact? My Mom was awesome, but my view of her and my trust in her would be very much altered if I found out she was doing some other guy on the side.
If it were the Dad philandering and the son finds out, who’s to say he wouldn’t see that as just “something people do” because his role model did it?
As uncouth as toofs statement was, it has a kernel of truth to it. One dalliance, maybe under special circumstances is one thing. Doing it again means that the first time was no accident, and doing it a third time shows that it’s something she might likely return to.
People can and do recover their relationships after multiple instances of infidelity, but many do not. It’s up to the OP to decide which is right for his situation. He now has a healthy amount of anecdotal evidence to support whichever way he chooses to look at things.
He was replying to most posts individually That’s what’s really needed here. for a while, and has been silent recently. I hope he’s evaluating things and making choices that best benefit him and his family as a whole.
No, actually the choice remains with the Family court. You cannot unilaterally cut a parent out of a child’s life due to divorce. Unless someone has been an unfit parent if they are seeking custody they will generally get at least partial custody. In many states, the court greatly frowns on any effort to prevent children from having relationships with both parents. In my state, if a parent has attempted to prevent a relationship with the kids – either by interfering with visitation or by telling them things to make them dislike the other parent – it would be a large negative factor in the custody decision.
OP, I recommend the book “I Love You But I Don’t Trust You”. It helped me get through a betrayal, but I wish I had found it earlier in the process. You can rebuild your marriage stronger than before, despite what the naysayers claim.
Yeah. The thing that’s wrong with it is he married a whore!
Why would you want to stay with her? If you want to fuck other people (as she apparantly does), you don’t, by definition, want to be married. So now your marriage has essentially become like a crappy job you go off to in the morning because you are too lazy to find a better one.
I have to agree with this. She may be a good mom, but she is a lousy wife. Fortunately, she won’t stop being the kids’ mom just because you two aren’t together anymore.
I think an amicable divorce could very well be better for the kids than to allow the marriage to keep limping along while the resentment and bitterness grows.
In any case, counseling is a good idea. It can help you both clarify your goals. If you stay together, counseling can help you both figure out how to repair this damage. If you leave, counseling can help you figure out how to end things in a way that is least harmful to your children.
I’ve been married twice.
Both times my spouse had affairs.
Both times I was willing to forgive them and wanted to stay married.
It didn’t work either time.
The second marriage we tried counseling. Both separate and together. It didn’t help.
I’m not sure what to tell you. Your reading your wife’s email is clearly not what you present to us. You are lying to us and you are probably lying to yourself. If you are going to forgive her, you have to forget it ever happened and you have to trust her completely. If she wants to go have lunch with that guy, you should let her do it. If you don’t, you don’t trust her and you have not forgiven her.
Can you do that?
Even if you can, will she forgive herself? If she doesn’t, your marriage will not work. Will you let her forgive herself?
Look, maybe monogamy is not for everyone. It’s a lie that our culture tells us.
Maybe monogamy is not necessary for a good marriage. She was discrete. You didn’t know. None of your friends knew. Maybe you shouldn’t be such a snoop.
If a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
If you never read her email, would you wife had cheated. Schrodinger’s cat in the box is both alive and dead. It is opening the box that makes one of those things true.
Why did you read her email? Stop lying to us and stop lying to yourself. You’re never going to forgive her. Not now. I don’t believe you are sincere when you say that. If you were, you wouldn’t be posting this here. I think you want to hear others call her a cheating whore.
Ummm, it’s smart to not trust someone who betrayed you. Continuing to love and forgive someone doesn’t mean they have to turn their brain off. Many people love alcoholics, and forgive them, but they don’t trust them, at least not until many years of proven abstinence and proper behavior.
Her affair was a macro event, not a quantum event. Schrodinger’s cat analogy was put forth by him to show the absurdity of applying quantum reasoning to events in our larger world. Schrodinger’s cat was never in a quantum state in Schrodinger’s mind. And the OP’s wife cheated on him well before he found out about it, not because he read her emails about it.
The OP should definitely take an earlier poster’s advice and check out one of those message boards which exist to help deal with infidelity. I suspect the overall quality of advice will be superior. (There’s been some very good advice given in this thread, along with some abysmally bad advice.)
Having an affair and having a problem like alcoholism are two completely different. Unless she is a sexual addict.
Obviously you don’t get what I mean by the analogy.
The inciting incident in this mess is HIS snooping. He alleges he was happy in the marriage until he read her private email. The emails confirmed the affair was over. He should have said nothing about it. No amount of thearpy will change the past and if he isn’t the sort of person to stop playing those movies in his head, the marriage will fail.
Perhaps. In which case, the task before him is to figure out why he did so. What was it that he found attractive in a person of bad character, and how can he avoid this mistake in the future?
My point is that it’s not smart to trust someone who has shown herself to be untrustworthy. Forgiveness doesn’t enter into it.
Because if he didn’t know about it, it wouldn’t have happened? I’m of the school that it’s better to know a hard truth and deal with it than to live in denial. Others may choose that option, however.