So, [Nugenix] endorsed by Frank Thomas is a complete scam, right?

[russian_heel]

The ads are myriad. A middle aged couple spots former MLB star Frank Thomas with 24" pythons, approach him and he cheerfully pronounces he is in great shape because of this testosterone supplement. He even reveals on the side to the male companions of the women enamored of the 50 year old overweight spokesmen that “your wife will be happy with it too.”

As a fellow 50 year old man, is there any chance this supplement has any possible value? In Frank Thomas’ defense this isn’t the first “testosterone” supplement or “program” to be introduced (mostly by radio DJs). Also GNC has been around for decades, with stores all over the place: surely, they wouldn’t place themselves in legal liability by selling complete snake oil?

Would they?

[Dr.Strangelove]

@russian_heel

Also GNC has been around for decades, with stores all over the place: surely, they wouldn’t place themselves in legal liability by selling complete snake oil?

Well, let’s see (fda.gov):

FDA is not authorized to review dietary supplement products for safety and effectiveness before they are marketed.

I think you can have high confidence that most of the stuff at GNC is snake oil.

[russian_heel]

NUGENIX, not Eugenix. And the line is “She’ll like it, too.”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[engineer_comp_geek]

Testosterone supplements are useful in treating hypogonadism.

NIH cite:

Risks and benefits of testosterone therapy in older men - PubMed

May Clinic cite:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/sexual-health/in-depth/testosterone-therapy/art-20045728?pg=2

Otherwise, testosterone supplements have not been proven to be useful, and are associated with an increased risk of heart attack, and may increase the risk for prostate cancer.

A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine had this to say:

During the course of the study, the testosterone group had higher rates of cardiac, respiratory, and dermatologic events than did the placebo group.

From here:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1000485

[engineer_comp_geek]

Moderator Note

@russian_heel

NUGENIX, not Eugenix.

Thread title corrected: Eugenix -> Nugenix

[kayaker]

I think eugenics is less of a scam than nugenix.

[Jackmannii]

@russian_heel

Also GNC has been around for decades, with stores all over the place: surely, they wouldn’t place themselves in legal liability by selling complete snake oil?

Would they?

“At GNC (an investigation by the state attorney general’s office) found that five out of six samples from the company’s signature “Herbal Plus” brand of supplements “were either unrecognizable or a substance other than what they claimed to be.” In pills labeled ginkgo biloba, the agency found only rice, asparagus and spruce, an ornamental plant commonly used for Christmas decorations.”

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/sidebar-whats-in-those-supplements/

Anabolic/androgenic steroids commonly “contaminate” supplement products. So no need to buy Nugenix, get your dose of testosterone or prohormones from something made in China and marketed by a company which doesn’t bother listing it on the label.

Dietary supplements test positive for steroids (Published 2007)

[Gyrate]

Remember to thank Orrin Hatch for deregulating the supplement industry, solely for his personal benefit.

[running_coach]

@Gyrate

Remember to thank Orrin Hatch for deregulating the supplement industry, solely for his personal benefit.

Ah, c’mon. It wasn’t just for his personal benefit.

Family members were involved.

[Chefguy]

Nugenix sounds like a drug for treating cat scratch fever.

Speaking of weird supplement names, I saw one at Costco called “Ubiquitol”, which, I’m assuming from its name, can be found everywhere.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Dr.Strangelove

I think you can have high confidence that most of the stuff at GNC is snake oil.

Most of the stuff sold at GNC consists of products whose health benefits are relatively non-controversial - vitamins, protein supplements and the like. Dr. Max Power’s Dick Pill-type stuff is much less than half of their offerings.

Of course, the beneficial stuff may not actually contain what it’s supposed to, as noted by Jackmannii. That’s hardly unique to GNC though.

[filmore]

@russian_heel

The ads are myriad. A middle aged couple spots former MLB star Frank Thomas with 24" pythons, approach him and he cheerfully pronounces he is in great shape because of this testosterone supplement.

I always laugh at those commercials because it doesn’t seem like he’s in great shape. He looks pretty overweight to me (excessive body fat rather than massive muscles). I’m sure he does work out and has a good level of fitness, but he doesn’t look anything special compared to other guys his age who work out.

[TriPolar]

The placebo effect may be there for some people. But then it’s not the ingredients that make the difference, and add in the ‘joining the gym going once and then never coming back’ syndrome it’s not likely to work anyway.

Even if there is some useful stuff in some of these things I think the actual working out that’s supposed to go along with them is far more important and probably works just as well without the supplements. And that’s a big ‘if’ on them having any useful ingredients in the first place.

[voltaire]

Some of you are calling it a testosterone supplement, but I’m pretty sure it ain’t that, which would require a prescription. It can supposedly increase your body’s natural ability to produce testosterone, but I don’t imagine that it does much of that even in the best of cases.

[BeeGee]

If you order now, you can probably get a pair of copper socks for free.

[Jonathan_Chance]

Maybe some magnets.

[Shodan]

It’s fenugreek, vitamins B6 and B12, and zinc. (Cite.) None of these have been shown to have any effect on testosterone levels in normal men.

Fenugreek has been studied in connection with diabetes, but without finding anything much. In some folk medicines, it was used to help nursing mothers produce milk, which sounds rather counterproductive if you want to enhance testosterone levels.

So yes, scam.

Regards,
Shodan

[Dr.Strangelove]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Most of the stuff sold at GNC consists of products whose health benefits are relatively non-controversial - vitamins, protein supplements and the like.

Vitamins, for most people, most of the time–are snake oil (“expensive pee”). A tad less true for protein supplements, but even then I suspect that they aren’t doing much for most of their customers. Someone going to the gym once a week doesn’t need a protein shake, just a chicken sandwich.

[Derleth]

@Shodan

It’s fenugreek, vitamins B6 and B12, and zinc. (Cite.)

Yes, that’s certainly what it’s claimed to contain. I’d like to reiterate how little we know about what it actually contains, and link to an article on the subject: “Dietary supplements: Scary substances manufactured under scary conditions”:

Tsouderos’ article, Dietary supplements: Manufacturing troubles widespread, FDA inspections show, is an indictment of the entire supplement industry. It also shows that, due to lack of resources, the FDA is clearly not up to the task of exercising even the minimal level of oversight required by the DSHEA. In the last four years, according to Tsouderos, the FDA has found major violations of manufacturing rules in nearly half of the 450 companies it has inspected:

The inspection reports portray an industry struggling to meet basic manufacturing standards, from verifying the identity of the ingredients that go into its products to inspecting finished batches of supplements.

Some firms don’t even have recipes, known as master manufacturing records, for their products.

Others make their supplements in unsanitary factories. New Jersey-based Quality Formulation Laboratories produced protein powder mixes and other supplements in a facility infested with rodents, rodent feces and urine, according to government records. FDA inspectors found a rodent apparently cut in half next to a scoop, according to a 2008 inspection report.

“It’s downright scary,” said Daniel Fabricant, head of the FDA’s Division of Dietary Supplement Programs. “At least half of industry is failing on its face.” 

[snip]

Lest you think that this issue doesn’t have potentially horrific consequences, consider the story of John Adams and 200 people who were poisoned by a supplement:

In 2008 more than 200 people — including a 4-year-old — were poisoned by selenium after taking liquid multivitamin dietary supplements that were sold in health stores and by chiropractors, according to a medical paper published on the mass poisoning. The products, called Total Body Formula and Total Body Mega Formula, contained an average of 40,800 micrograms of selenium per serving instead of 200, according to the paper.

John Adams, of Chipley, Fla., was one of the victims. His silver hair — which had earned him the nickname “Silvertop” at work — began falling out in clumps. His fingernails and toenails became discolored, peeled off, regrew and peeled off again. He had a hard time remembering how to do his job as a telephone repairman. He became so weak it was hard to get in and out of his work truck, and eventually he was forced to retire.

Adams and his wife, who also experienced problems, sued along with dozens of others. This year, the couple received a settlement. Adams, now 65, said he is still weak on his left side, has ruined fingernails and toenails that do not grow and struggles with memory problems.

[Ambivalid]

The term “testosterone supplement” itself is a bit misleading. The only way it can be a supplement is if the product actually increases your body’s natural production of the hormone. And basically such products fail time and time again to live up to their claims. However bringing exogenous testosterone into the body in an attempt to “supplement” the body’s natural production is impossible. Your body will sense that its getting enough of the hormone from somewhere and shut down the body’s own natural production.