First off, trying to give credit where credit is due, I think Clinton’s concession speech this morning, while about 8 hours late, was very gracious and really, all around, a great speech. Obama also appears to be working to make the transition as smooth as possible.
But, despite liberals professing grave concerns about post-election violence from Trump supporters, and fretting about what would happen if Trump or his supporters refused to accept the election results, it seems that liberals are the ones having a hard time accepting it, and turning violent in some cases:
I suspect it’s because Trump is specifically a loathsome person. W or Romney or McCain wouldn’t have had the same effect. Trump specifically embodies a number of comically evil traits. He wants to torture people, murder the families of terrorists, is open to conducting nuclear first strikes, is a possible child-rapist, is a very possible sexual assaulter, a serial cheater, a deadbeat, arrogant know-nothing.
The protesters I know aren’t doing it to say that the election was illegitimate, they’re doing it to take a stand that they don’t support the various evils that Trump embodies. Does that make sense?
When asking “what’s up with that?” why not hear whatsome of the protestors have to say, in order to better figure out their motives and/or tolerance level?
[QUOTE=WaPo]
“I’m disappointed, shocked, a little panicked for my friends and family — for everything that will be unleashed, the hate that will be unleashed,” said Marion Hill, 22, who joined thousands who amassed outside of the Trump Tower in downtown Chicago.
“He’s going to lead us to a very dark place for women,” said Samantha Sylverne, a 19-year-old student, who marched in Chicago carrying a sign scrawled on a cardboard box that read, “Amerikkka elected a rapist.” "Along with how it affects our reproductive rights, the things Donald Trump spews about women shape how Americans think they can talk about women and other marginalized people,” she said.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=NYTimes]
“I’m definitely not proud of the decision,” said Jennifer, who declined to give her last name, “but I think we just need to, like every election, come together and, y’know, move forward and do what’s best for the nation.”
[/QUOTE]
Some protestors were there just to gather with other like-minded people and express their feelings of Trump, his character, and some of his proposed policies. There doesn’t seem to be any cry that the elections were rigged or that Trump’s win was not legitimate.
America did elect a rapist. Trump has been accused by at least 3 women, including a child. Trumps response was to intimidate these women by threatening to sue them for slander.
Here is the problem. The criticisms of Trump are true. The criticisms of Obama are false.
On the right they’d say Obama was a dictator, a communist, a fascist, a tyrant, the antichrist, etc. All lies. Where were you when people were comparing Obama to Hitler and Lenin?
But the criticisms of Trump are true. Rapist and potential child rapist? Yup. Authoritarian? Yup. Emotionally unstable? Yup. No respect for his opposition? Yup. Calls for the murder or jailing of his political opposition (2nd amendment remedies)? Yup. No understanding of policy? Yup. A disrespectful bully? Yup.
Do you think that means they don’t accept Trump’s victory as legitimate? Or that they are just pissed off and scared? (Not that that excuses the violence).
You’ll have to excuse me if I hold the standard a little higher than “accused by at least 3 women” before I believe “the criticisms of Trump are true”. Maybe something along the lines of “beyond a reasonable doubt”?
ganthet pointed out that “There doesn’t seem to be any cry that the elections were rigged or that Trump’s win was not legitimate.” and I agree. I haven’t seen anyone seriously trying to claim that it was rigged or stolen (not that I’ve looked very hard for it, but it certainly doesn’t seem to be the main point of the protests). I think most or all of them are just pissed off and / or scared. And, to be fair, most of them are protesting respectfully / properly / legally / pick-whatever-term-you-want-to-signal-I’m-fine-with-it. My gripe is with the (probably very small minority of) protesters that are lighting dumpsters on fire, blocking traffic, throwing bottles, smashing windows, etc. Knock that crap off!
By his own admission he is a sexual predator. Grabbing women by the hoo-ha, specifically without their permission as he claimed he did, is sexual assault. What, you think he went around grabbing hoo-has without ever grabbing one that wasn’t interested?
So you can change rapist for sexual predator if you must, but if flagrant admission is insufficient for “beyond reasonable doubt” then we’ll have to talk about your definition of “reasonable.”
The charge that Trump raped a 13yo was a hoax. It’s been filed twice and dropped twice. Lisa Bloom, who represented her and is Gloria Allred’s daughter, claimed death threats were made against her and yet Bloom has not gone to the police with these threats because most likely they were made up just like the rape.
Nice. Very sly attempt at moving the goalposts. Wesley Clark said, “… the criticisms of Trump are true. Rapist and potential child rapist? Yup.” That’s a claim that appears to be unsupported by credible evidence. Agree or disagree?
I’m sorry but if you voted for either Clinton i don’t want to hear about sexual assault or rape. Also the only hate and violence since the election has been from the left so I think you’ve lost the moral high ground there as well. Seriously people? I don’t like trump any more than you do but you’re acting like spoiled brats. If he starts doing objectional things as president we’ll all work to to stop him, however is there any doubt that he’s a blustering blowhard? Everything he has done to this point was to get elected, I see no reason to think he actually believed any of it. It’s his pattern to start big and then negotiate down to the reasonable, so hes started big now we just need to negotiate him down.
For one, you’re either using the FBI definition of rape, which is useless and rather silly, or you’re using the colloquial definition of rape, in which case grabbing hoo-has without consent very much counts. I granted the concession to “sexual assault” because it is less of a charged phrase than “rape.” They mean the same thing.
For two, you’re quibbling to defend an admitted sexual predator from accusations of further sexual assault. If that means nothing to you, so be it, but don’t be shocked when you get some hard scrutiny.
For three, his own candid admission to being a predator establishes a pattern of behavior consistent with the accusations, which grants them credibility. There are witnesses to the offense. The preponderance of the evidence favors the belief that he did, in fact, do the act. Is this sufficient for a legal conviction? No, certainly not. But you don’t have to be convicted to face the moral consequences of your actions, just the legal ones.
I knew an accused child rapist once. No one could prove he did it, but someone close had this to say: “I’ll never know if you did or didn’t, but that’s neither here nor there. What you need to do is ask yourself, if you didn’t do it, why is it that your closest and most trusted family members who know you better than anyone are willing to believe you did?”
I’m not really convinced that “admitted sexual predator” or “his own candid admission to being a predator” are accurate. Are you talking about the Access Hollywood tape? The relevant parts of the transcript seem to be “You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. I just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. … Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.”
What do you understand from the phrase “they let you do it”? To me, that sounds like consent. What’s your take on it though?
My take on it is that Trump is a nasty pig. And also the president. I’m sure he’s not the first nasty pig to be in the oval office as the man in charge.
Uh… I don’t want to sound like I’m lecturing you about consent, but that’s not what consent looks like. Not being prevented from something, especially in a high pressure situation like one of the wealthiest, most recognizable and powerful people in the country suddenly groping you, does not imply consent. At all…
I think the public protests are a tactical mistake, at least, and they look petty and infantile. My father used to tell me not to cry until I got hurt, and I think that applies here. There’s no point “protesting” things about Trump’s character; now that he is going to be President, actual public protesting should be saved for his (and his party’s) actions or proposed actions.
This election should teach us some lessons, and we’re not going to learn those lessons if we’re out on the street shouting about nothing useful. It will take quiet reflection to put ourselves mentally in the places of those who voted for Trump, for that is the only way we will be able to understand them and deal with their issues so that the country can start to heal. Let’s face it, some of them have a point: the people supporting Hillary, and much/most of the media, were very, very smug about Trump’s disqualifications, which didn’t matter a damn to these voters. And we were smug about Trump voters in a way that, in hindsight, I can see was probably infuriating. You don’t overcome fear and ignorance by pointing at it and laughing.
We can be and should be better than these protests against a legitimate vote in our democracy. We shouldn’t be childish. We should be smart.
No, I actually like my Breitbart source. I think I’m done digging up alternate sources for Dopers that want to live in their own little liberal bubble / echo chamber. If you bother to actually read the Breitbart article you’ll notice that it actually just links to, and quotes, other sources (like the LA freakin’ Times).
*Not trying to come down hard on you on particular, I’ve just been asked recently to provide a source other than FOX News because they weren’t considered credible in this echo chamber either, and I’m sick of it.