A *TRUE * Bakersfieldian, you are. 
Just as a helpful hint, use dime instead of dígame. Dígame is formal – appropriate for use with the girl’s parents – whereas dime is familiar. You’ll sound a little more natural, and she might take it better. I know that when I’m speaking Spanish with a close friend, and they swap to the formal forms, it’s because they’re either mad at or contemptuous of me at the moment, so she may misread your intention.
BTW, Clothahump, you’re an idiot. What LHoD said, pretty much.
Good to know–thanks! The only time I’ve ever spent in a Spanish-speaking country was when I was thirteen and in Guatemala, and there I had it drilled into my head that I must never ever use the informal you; since then, I’ve been really loath to use it. Obviously, though, it exists for a reason.
Daniel
Sorry, yeah. I made a stupid assumption.
Still, I would rephrase. “English welcome.” “English offered.” “English available.”
You want a selling point to be a selling point, not a limiting point.
Oh really? Then how does one say “We speak Spanish” in Spanish?
As mentioned upthread, the general construction is “se habla Espanol.”
Thanks, I missed that one.
'Tis true. If I saw the ad, though, I wouldn’t be thinking “we won’t have dirty wetbacks who will rob you blind” or “all our gardeners are Anglo,” but rather “you won’t have a problem communicating with us.”
It’s been a while since I made a road trip through the South and Southwest, where some small, independent motels have signs reading “American owned.” The context there seems to imply “Our rooms are much cleaner than those curry-reeking rooms of motels owned by Indian immigrants.” If I saw such a sign at a factory, though, I would think “This isn’t owned by some multinational corporation.” Are “American Owned” signs at motels stilll common?
What exactly is it about that letter that you don’t like? It’s not a cite, of course, it’s opinion piece, and while the writing is a bit clunky in places, he’s about 80% right. I’ve said for years that “anything-American” is an unamerican concept, “American of whatever desent or ancestory” is what this country is founded on, and one of the things I enjoy most about living here. E Pluribus Unum, what a concept. :dubious:
I asked him for a cite, and he returned with “History is my cite,” an inutterably stupid thing to say. Then he linked to this; I went to it expecting at least a fact or two.
No facts. And the opinions are idiotic. For example:
“Forcing the idea of diversity upon a society is a more effective form of racism than any right-wing hate group could ever dream up!”
Okay, you might declare that it’s an effective means of dividing the country; but by what definition of “racism” does the idea of diversity qualify? And claiming that it’s more effective than any right-wing hate group’s agenda is repugnant, showing either a blatant ignorance of the history of said hate groups or tremendous callous dishonesty.
And what’s so un-American about “Anything-American”? I hate the terminology myself, because it’s clunky and because it leads to bad assumptions (I especially hate the pairing of Caucasian and African-American, with its implication that only the latter group’s American-ness needs to be affirmed), but I don’t see anything un-American about it. Stupid and clunky terminology is quintessentially American.
Daniel
I did say “about 80%” right, you happened to pull one of the stupid parts that I don’t think is at all accurate for you quote.
As for Anything-American, I think it’s precisely backwards. If you move here, live and work here and get your citizenship, you become an American, period. Nothing more needs to be said, and you have the exact same rights (and responsibilities) as everyone else. Now your whatever heritage is what you bring to the party, your contribution to the greater whole, and as such it becomes a part of the heritage of all Americans. I love to go to ethnic festivals and immerse myself in the cuisine and culture of other lands, but I also feel like I am celebrating my American heritage while I am doing so, regardless of weather it’s Latinofest, Polishfest or the Scottish Games that I am participating in. The AMERICAN part comes first and foremost. Thus-“American of whatever descent”.
Well, if 20% of an article is as idiotic as the part I quoted, I consider it an idiotic article. Most articles don’t come anywhere near that stupid.
The argument you’ve offered is fine. I think I disagree with it, but not in any important way. The fact that you didn’t refer to “cracker-bashing week” in making the argument is a big point in your favor.
Clothahump called that letter a “good discussion of the issue.” It was not good. It was not a discussion. It was not of the issue (given that the issue was whether in the past, immigrants were more likely to learn English). Therefore, I called Clothahump an idiot.
Daniel
Signs saying “proud to be an American” or such things are pretty common around here. But mostly it’s a post 9-11 code for “I may be swarthy, but I’m not a Muslim.”
Anyway, in California at least, Spanish is in fact a local language. Spanish has been here as long and continuously as English. It’s the de facto language of several industries and frankly if you choose to get involved in these industries without at least taking that into consideration, you are the idiot- not them. I don’t speak Spanish, and it does limit my oppertunities, but thats all my problem for refusing to speak one of the major languages of the place where I live.
Hello from Tehachapi. At least I’m not in Bakersfield
:: waves ::
Bring apples.
Oh and I laugh at your lake of doom and dead fish.
I don’t get this at all. He perceives there’s a market for gardening services delivered by people fluent in English. I myself would rather converse with a contractor where there’s no language barrier. He points out that at least with his service, the uninitiated potential customer needn’t guess–English is spoken. This does not imply that those fluent in a different language are inferior. Doesn’t stink at all, IMO.
I know Milwaukee had several schools that taught in German (for children of German immigrants) up until WWI broke out.
My grandfather, who was the second generation in his family born in the US, went to elementary school speaking only Czech. This was because his grandparents lived with his family and didn’t know English very well (if at all). This would have been in the late 30s. He was lucky that his schoolteacher also spoke Czech.
This has always been my impression: learning a new language as an adult is neurologically difficult for humans, not something that some cultures do and others don’t do. Whether certain immigrants learn the local language depends more on the community: are there enough folks speaking their native tongue for them to get by without learning the local tongue at least a little? Sometimes there are, and sometimes there aren’t.
I would expect more recent immigrants to have a higher percentage of English-speakers, simply because modern folk are so much more heavily surrounded by media language: whereas an earlier immigrant might be able to go days hearing only her native tongue if she lives in a community from the motherland, a modern immigrant can’t do anything of the sort.
But that’s wild-ass speculation. I recognize it as such.
Daniel
I think the ad being in English should be a big enough hint that some one speaks English. In fact what he is doing with saying “We speak English” is providing a contrast to his competors which he is implying don’t speak English. To list that as a benefit is racist. The same with a Spanish ad saying "we speak Spanish. " It is all well and good for someone to smugly say we can’t know what the author meant by it but in fact we derive messages from context all of the time especially in advertising. The signs in the window of stores for instance; a sign that says “we speak Spanish” do we finish that with an “also” or with “only”? one is inclusive and not racist, the other is exclusive and racist. How do you tell? You ask the question “as opposed to what?” We have to assume that there is a reason for the verbiage of the sign as well as the ad. The author of the ad may very well have meant “We speak Spanish and English” or “We are multilingual” but that isn’t what he said.
I’m not sure where you are from, but around here that isn’t necessarily the case. Plenty of ads (usually for manual laborers) are in English, but the worker/business owner often wont speak a lick of English. If they do, it is the basics (the very basics).
That is really the crux of this issue, as a lot of English-only speakers will call the ad from the paper, two or three gardeners from the same team will come out for an estimate (one will speak some English), and then the English speakering gardener wont be found again after that.
Obviously, the above situation could cause any number of problems for both groups.
I still don’t understand how “We Speak English” is any more racist than “We Speak Spanish.” Both are trying to convey the same message.
Oh, the ad is apparently still running.