Hidden by OP's request
So you’re MAGA now. Got it.
Moderating:
We have a number of posts that are getting personal, so let’s avoid putting words in the mouths of other posters or other possible attacks. We also have rather exotic efforts to make analogies about betrayal vs. treason, which are pulling away from the specifics of what to impeach Trump for. Let’s get back to Trump’s impeachable actions which is the discussion at hand.
I’d like to have my previous post deleted. And an apology to @Smapti . Clearly, many, disagree what treason means. I believe that attempting to overthrow the government is at the very least a form of treason.
There are different statutes which such an act meets the standards of that are more fitting than treason, which has a very specific and narrow definition and standard of proof under the Constitution.
Either of those would make a sounder basis for articles of impeachment.
The reason treason is defined so narrowly as it is in the Constitution and the US Code is because the founders drew on centuries of history of tyrants bending it to mean everything from “members of Parliament voting against the king’s budget request” to “failing to produce a male heir” to “refusing to sign an oath denouncing the Pope”. Trying to pound everything Trump has done into a treason-shaped hole is, well, Trumpian.
That’s about all I have to say on the topic.
Just my opinion, but while Trump isn’t guilty of the crime of treason (as it is defined in the US Code), impeachment is not a criminal process, and nobody is being convicted of a crime during an impeachment trial. I see no reason why “treason” (however Congress wants to define it) can’t be used as a reason for impeachment, regardless of statute.
Exactly.
How about starting to restore faith in America by doing it for what he has done to other countries?
I i.e … Illegal tariffs, violating the law of the sea with drug boat strikes or the explicit war crimes with the Iran infrastructure threats?
He says they’re drug boats. He is using US forces to create snuff films for his enjoyment.
To what extent is Vance anti-impeachment insurance? I remember Quayle being referred to as such.
Not at all, I think. As bad as Vance is, Trump is worse. And Vance doesn’t have Trump’s army of loyal followers.
I agree. And dammit, ya gotta start somewhere.
Hopefully impeaching Trump would open JD’s eyes to the clue X four.
It’s horrible. After his insurrection, impeachment should have taken a morning and every one would go out for a nice lunch.
Oh, and welcome.
You mean like sexual assault and being convicted over and over again? Please tell us what we should be waiting for?
Yeah, I loathe Vance but I’d still take him over Trump.
Impeaching Trump might put up some guard rails for Vance. “You’re next, watch it”
Kind of like saying you would rather be bitten by a rattlesnake than a cobra. It’s undoubtedly the better choice but both choices are bad.
Pretty much.
The logic here seems to me solid:
As for JD Vance, even he is better than this.
If Jimmy Carter had released, during the Iran hostage crisis, the same statement Trump released today, I think he would have been removed that day, probably by being sternly told, by some committee of senior American leaders, to resign. In the unlikely event that Carter refused, quickie constitutional removal formalities would have been in order. The world deserves no less with Donald Trump.
Tomorrow morning, I’ll probably wake up and see that Trump arguably committed war crimes overnight, but that Iranian civilization is, by any reasonable measure, intact. However, we cannot count on that.
While I’m sceptical of the utility of impeachment as a punishment (and of punishments generally), I am all for removal from office as a preventative of the war crimes Trump has promised to commit.
P.S. I’m not sure if there is a paywall on my link above. If so, you can PM me for a gift link. I don’t want to put it here because it gives part of my real name. Perhaps it already is possible to find my real name, but better to not make it easier.
Do you have any links that show this to be true?
Congressional Republicans will never vote to impeach Trump over this, but they would had Biden said it.