Was going to put this in Elections but it’s really IMHO:
Would Trump be impeached and removed from office (that is, right now) if both houses of Congress were comprised of Dopers? You vote!
(Please select ***two ***options when voting in the poll: One House choice and one Senate choice. House requires a majority to impeach; Senate requires 2/3 to remove from office.)
Is there any doubt on how this will come out?
I understand that impeachment is, at its heart, a political process, not a criminal one. That said, what exactly are the high crimes and misdemeanors the SDMB Congress is alleging Trump’s done? Being rude on Twitter? FWIW, I didn’t think lying in a civil deposition (whose underlying action should have been barred under laches, but that’s a separate issue) counted either.
And with that said, I agree with Nemo. Let’s make it interesting: do you think a fair initial over/under number to not convict would be 15% of the votes, higher, or lower?
EDIT: Oh, and what is the reasoning for those who’d split their votes, if anyone does?
I have no doubt that over 50% will vote to impeach Trump, but it is legitimately questionable as to whether 67% would vote to remove Trump from office. We’ll see.
I would hope that Dopers would actually wait for the evidence from the investigations of the special prosecutor. It might be a faint hope, but I still have it.
So at this stage neither choice makes sense.
People hate Trump for the wrong reasons. Of course, he is a boorish, crude individual, but, so what. The real damage is going to come from the Republican controlled Congress which is of two minds about Trump but salivates to return us to the Dark Ages. Pence, on the other hand, is a religious fanatic. His politics are worse than Trump’s and he spent 12 years in the Congress and will get all the Medieval programs on his desk in a hot second. He is the Christian right’s wet dream. Say goodbye to the secular state.
Furthermore, Trump is at least less interested in making wars and regime change all over the world. Pence will be a continuation of the usual war and regime change foreign policy. So you want Pence? Get rid of Trump.
Some doubt. Do we really want Pence as President and/or a total vacuum in any branch of government right now? After all, its not like we’re suddenly going to get a liberal in the White House.
Do we really want to set up the Democrat who wins the next election to be raked over even worse than President Obama was? After all, we strike and they are bound to counter-strike.
I say the People’s House goes yeah and the August Gentlemen say no.
House no, Senate yes.
The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct peculiar to officials, such as perjury of oath, **abuse of authority, **, bribery, intimidation, misuse of assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, and refusal to obey a lawful order.
[QUOTE=The case for impeaching Trump — and fast - Vox]
Though his White House had said Comey was fired after Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein wrote a memo concluding Comey’s handling of the Clinton email case was indefensible, Trump, in a moment of admirable candor, explained that this wasn’t true.
“In fact when I decided to just do it, I said to myself,” Trump told Holt, “‘You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story, it’s an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won.”
A contemporaneous memo from Comey further confirms that Trump specifically asked him to stop investigating former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn. Rosenstein confirmed Thursday (May 18) to members of the United States Senate that Trump had already made up his mind to fire Comey before Rosenstein wrote the memo that the White House later briefly claimed was the basis for Comey’s firing. Here, then, is the timeline, which is now publicly known, and widely accepted:
In February, President Trump met with FBI Director James Comey and asked Comey to drop investigations of Michael Flynn and tell the public that Trump’s ties to Russia were not under investigation. Trump also repeatedly denounced the whole idea of an investigation in public statements and tweets.
In March, Comey clarified to Congress and the public that a very real, very serious, ongoing investigation was underway.
In April, Trump fired Comey. He put out an implausible pretext for the firing, and then quickly got bored with the thin deception and explained on national television that he really fired Comey because he was frustrated about the Russia situation.
That’s the entirety of the case. Trump was meddling with an FBI investigation, he fired the FBI director when he wouldn’t go along with it, then he lied about why he’d fired the FBI director, and then later he confessed the truth. That the facts have emerged so quickly is disorienting, but it shouldn’t blind us to the basic reality that the whole saga has played out. And in terms of Trump’s basic unfitness to continue in office, there is little need for further investigation.
The White House’s defense that firing Comey was within Trump’s legal rights is no defense at all. It would have been “legal” for Steve Bannon to shoot Comey in the head and receive a presidential pardon, but it still would have been an abuse of power. It’s legal for a private citizen to buy a friend a gift or to fire an employee, but it becomes illegal to do those things if the purpose of doing them is to obstruct an investigation.
It is simply not possible for America’s federal law enforcement officers — the FBI, the other federal police agencies, and the dozens of US attorneys’ offices around the country — to do their work properly if they know the president of the United States can and will fire them without consequence if their efforts to fully investigate criminal activity anger the president by implicating his associates.
Firing Comey for improper reasons has implications not just for the Russia investigation but for every federal law enforcement and regulatory action that could conceivably touch on Trump’s sprawling business interests — or those of his donors, Cabinet, and circle of acquaintance. These implications are toxic — and they are important given the sheer scale of Trump’s various financial conflicts and business dealings. If we know the president is willing to fire an FBI director who won’t improperly tamper with an investigation into his campaign team, then how can any federal regulatory agency be trusted to supervise the various business ventures of the Trump and Kushner clans?
[/QUOTE]
As much as I would dearly love to see Trump out of office (as soon as possible) I could not vote for either impeachment or a conviction of him at this time because I have not seen any unimpeachable (heh) evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors.
Impeachment is NOT meant to be used as a recall vote.
I expect Comey’s testimony alone will require any reasonable person to vote to impeach and remove.
Trump is pretty much doing what he campaigned on, or at least doing the best he can in the face of a hostile Congress and judiciary. I vote NO in the hopes that the House and Senate recognize what is the will of the electorate.
I’d rather have Pence as President than Trump. Hell, I’d even rather have Ted Cruz as President than Trump.
When P.J. O’Rourke reluctantly endorsed Clinton, he said “She’s wrong about absolutely everything, but she’s wrong within normal parameters.” That’s the way I feel about Pence in comparison to Trump.
Are you suggesting we keep the ineffectual figurehead because we (should) fear the person next in line? Usa has a long history of doing that eg: Diem, Nol, Batista, Somoza, Pahlavi, Pinochet, et al. Maybe we should learn our lesson and do what’s right, for a change, instead of what’s expedient.
mc
No & No:(
The sooner he leaves office, the better.
I at least expect very few “yes and no” votes.
More charges will doubtless become evident soon enough, but as of right now, the tax evasion should be enough. He set up a fake charity and used “donations” to it (which were really just payments directly to him) to avoid paying taxes. I’m not aware of any facts here which are even in dispute.
I wouldn’t be surprised if, within a week, we have enough evidence for obstruction of justice, too, but right now, that depends too much on one man’s testimony. And then, of course, there’s whatever Trump was trying to prevent Comey from finding.
So far, slightly over 67% in both houses.
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
I’m not sure we have hard evidence yet of high crimes or misdemeanors, but if I had the power, I’d dump Trump for an unpaid parking ticket at this point.