So what IS the big deal about alcohol, anyway?

Factual Questions
1

OK. This is my first thread, so I hope I’m not putting this in the wrong place. PLease forgive me if that is the case :slight_smile:

I have been following (somewhat) the events surrounding the ‘Silo Incident’ on SD chat. I just read his post in MPSIMS, where he mentions he got drunk, etc., etc. (NOTE: I’m not ‘picking on’ Silo here, I am just using this as an example!)

So, my question is this: Just what is so great about drinking alcohol? As you can probably gather by this question, I don’t drink. At all. Ever. At least not alcohol, anyway. I’ve had a sip of wine on a couple occassions, and I can only say that it was the nastiest substance I have ever imbibed. The smell of it makes me sick.

OK, so maybe I just have weirdo taste buds. HA! There are other reasons for my asking this! My entire family, with the sole exception of me, it seems, is (or were) alcoholics. My father was an alcoholic, and he is now dead. My paternal grandfather was an alcoholic, and he is dead. My paternal grandmother was an alcoholic, and she is dead. Alcohol killed them all. That’s probably reason enough. However, when they were alive, they drank heavily, and became the most evil, vile people I have ever had the displeasure of knowing. I know that is a horrible thing to say about one’s own family, but it’s the way I feel. They all claimed to ‘drink to drown their sorrows’, but invariably created far more sorrows while drunk than they ever had when sober.

It is my observation that people who get drunk are idiots. Sorry, but that’s what I’ve seen. There is no such thing as a ‘fun drunk’.

So, what, then, given the embarrasment and hassle, the potential for injuring those around you, including yourself, the physical side-effects of the ‘morning after’, the sorrow and grief inflicted on loved ones, etc., is the attraction to drinking oneself into stupidity? It seems to be such a commonplace practice that there must be some benefit, right?

So, I ask you, my fellow Dopers, what is the Straight Dope on getting drunk?

2

That’s a very black-and-white OP. You can be pleasantly “fuzzy” without vomiting and insulting your friends, you know. You can drink without ruining your life, health, relationships and career - as long as you’re sensible.

I admire you for feeling no pressure to drink alcohol. I do, but not to excess (I stay within the recommended government safety limits). I like it. It may be psychologically dubious (“in the past alcohol has made me relax, so I’ll have some and then I’ll relax”) or just socially convenient for me, but I do enjoy it in moderation.

Incidentally, having never tried it, how can you state there is no such thing as “fun drunk”?

3

I am well aware that there is a difference between ‘drinking’ and ‘getting drunk’. What I am asking, is why get drunk?

As for the ‘no fun drunks’ part, I can state that because every drunk I have ever been around has acted like a complete idiot. It’s that simple. When people drink too much, they get stupid, and stupid is not fun.

I have also noticed that even a ‘social’ amount of alcohol is enough to change people’s behaviors (not like it takes a rocket scientist to figure this out). This is somewhat off topic, but when your behaviors change, you are not who you were beforehand. If I know a person when they are sober, I can tell when they are starting to ‘buzz’. And, admittedly, that puts me into immediate ‘defense’ mode, and I basically do my best to get away from that person. The bottom line is that I don’t like being around people while they are drinking, largely because of my experiences with my family. Purely a personal thing - it’s my own hang-up, and I’m well aware of it.

However, as I mentioned, I’m wondering about the appeal of actually getting drunk, not drinking in moderation.

4

You don’t have weirdo tast buds, the shit, well, taste like shit.
First Off. Alchohol doesn’t kill your relatives. Depression and Personality Disorders kill your relatives.

People who get drunk and beat there wives, are loud and obnoxious are IDIOTS. But not everyone. Those like my self that are very shy, and don’t get to say what they want to say to family and friends enjoy drinking sometimes to take the edge off. I can be very humorous and talkitive, a quality I do not have without alcohol. I am not an alchoholic though and drink about every few months, it’s like a treat. But I don’t drive and rarely go out in public drunk. It really helps me on a social level.

Some people drink to take away the pain they’ve endured in the past. Things they disklike about themselves. An embarrassment, humiliation, things like that.

Those idiots you’ve witnessed are very very introverted people that when they get drunk, judgement is impaired and they simply don’t care what they say. Whether it hurts someone or not.

When I get totally blasted, I’ve been told that I’m even more talkative and humorous, in a good way because I usually don’t talk very much. I am not the angry loud annoying drunk type I guess, and not all people are.

Those who say getting drunk is stupid are simply stupid people. I’m not trying to offend you, but I feel you simply do not understand why people do it. You are not educated in this area. Hopefully this has helped you understand why some people do it.

And 80% of teenagers do it because it’s fun and different.

The other 20% find it’s a way out. Forget about it for a few years and really use it as a way out.

As for the feeling of it. When your wasted it’s like fainting, but without going all the way. When your buzzed(first stages of drunkeness) it’s like smoking a cigarette after not having smoked one in 2 weeks. And in the middle it’s like not having slept in 24 hours, but with a twist, verys from person to person I guess. In all cases Judgement is impaired and fear is taken away, the reason I communicate better, and the reason the loud ones are loud.

Alchohol doesn’t kill your relatives. Depression and Personality Disorders kill your relatives.

5

Sorry about that. I was writing my post while you already posted your second post. Disregard the How it feels part.

6

Just to clarify definitions: for me, “drunk” includes the intermediate stages, whatever you want to call them - fuzzy, merry, whatever. “Fun drunk” for me is that intermediate stage - if I’m reeling around and feeling queasy, that’s not fun. I agree with you that drinking deliberately to that stage is stupid - it’s not healthy, and as you say it can damage relationships. I think what you mean by “fun drunk” and what I mean are two different things.

Social drinking does change people, but I wouldn’t say that this is always a bad thing: it can bring people out of their shells, make people feel more at ease with themselves and others. I’m sure there are healthier ways to achieve that, but this is socially regarded as one of the easiest. Most of the best, deepest conversations I’ve had are at that stage. In that sense, alcohol in my non-medical opinion can be a useful “social lubricant”.

Back to the OP: the appeal of getting very drunk? I don’t know. I’ve been very drunk, but rarely having intended to go out and get plastered, and I don’t do it any more. Partly, maybe (now wearing my “Not a psychologist” hat) it’s about wanting to shirk responsibility and control and just let go. Maybe it’s immaturity, or wanting to experiment. Sometimes it just happens - you go out intending to just have one or two, and because half a dozen friends turn up, or because the drinks you’ve had loosen your inhibitions, you drink more. Willpower is the most important (and hardest) attribute to maintain when you’re drinking.

7

There also seems to be a genuine human need/drive for changes in consciousness. This has even been observed in (higher) animals, i.e. that they gravitate towards consuming intoxicating plants, etc.

8

Let’s not forget peer pressure, either. At Villanova, where I spent four years getting my BS, most parties revolved around drinking. Why? Because that’s what you do at parties. Why is that what you do at parties? Because that’s what everyone else does at parties, of course! It’s self-perpetuating.
By contrast, here at Montana State, the most common social/recreational activities are outdoor things, like skiing and hiking. There’s still some drinking, of course, but it’s not seen as the primary recreation… and therefore, it’s not the primary recreation.

I don’t drink myself, but from what I’ve seen, you can duplicate many of the effects by sleep deprivation. I’m still not sure how this is a desirable thing, but apparently many folks do.

9

I don’t really like to be drunk, but I do like a buzz (about .07 BAC, or 3/4 drunk). But I have rule, I never go in public with ANY alcohol in me. I always felt that people with intoxicants on their breath lack credibility, even if they only had 1 drink. So I sit at home and toast some brain cells. So what? I’m not hurting anybody. It stimulates the pleasure center in my brain. That is why people drink…it’s pleasurable. If you don’t like it, don’t drink! People who try to pressure a non drinker to drink are assholes!

10

You should, of course, ask the drunk guy :slight_smile:

11

I’m not a big drinker… and I don’t particularly care if people drink or not. The only beef I have is people serving alcohol at public places like concerts. Every single time I go to a concert a huge amount of people have been sitting in line drinking for hours before we even get IN the arena. Then you spend the next 4 hours dealing with people all around you who are fighting, cursing, acting like total idiots and my favorite : barfing. Cuz ya know… you havent lived until you have to sit 3 seats down from where there is vomit all over the floor in a nice hot steamy concert arena. These people drink cuz its… fun?? They seem miserable to me.

12

Oh… and Mauve Dog… Welcome :slight_smile: Nice to have you aboard!

13

Where I come from, it’s almost a part of the national heritage: “But what is your affair in Elsinore? We’ll teach you to drink deep ere you depart”, says Hamlet.

The social “buzz”, where you don’t act out of character but your inhibitions are just a bit dampened - that can be fun, especially if members of the preferred sex are around. It makes me just a tad braver when talking to the young women and less self-conscious when dancing - both are Good Things in my book.

Under the right circumstances, I might get considerably more plastered than that - with the right friends around, it creates a mood that just can’t be replicated when sober. That’s when we start singing the very dirty songs, when Anders makes his traditional de-bagged jump over the campfire, when we start to compose limericks, laugh ourselves sick over truly bad jokes and disclose deeply held secrets. And of course, the bonding continues the day after when we suffer through our collective hangovers. I don’t know why we can’t do this when sober, but it just doesn’t work that way. This, you might define as drinking yourself stupid.

Getting sh.t-faced to the point where you don’t remember where you were, what you did and who you threw up on, now that’s highly unpleasant. If I feel that - despite careful planning - I might slip into that sorry state, I try to get out of circulation ASAP. And yes, it got out of control a couple a times - I can still go red with shame thinking about those.

Drinking is a social thing for me - I’ve never gotten drunk on my own.

As for the taste: I guess it’s aquired. I definitely like a cold beer on a warm day - but I certainly didn’t when I drank the first one those many, many years ago.

Oh, and welcome to the SDMB, Mauve Dog. Great 1st post - keep’em coming!

14

From Farmer:

That would seem to be why I posted the question in the first place :stuck_out_tongue:

As for alcohol not killing people, surely you are aware of such things as liver disease and the infamous ‘drinking and driving’?

As for the explanation, it almost reads like, “Alcohol makes me a better person.” It’s not necessarily a bad thing, I guess. In this context, it seems to duplicate the effects of various drugs prescribed by psychiatrists.

I’m sorry if this is an incorrect interpretation, and may well stem from my own opinion about the stuff.

From pkbites

I can understand the light-headed feeling being somewhat pleasurable - I get lightheaded without alcohol, and it does feel kinda groovy.

And, as I mentioned, I don’t like it, so I don’t drink.

To no one in particular:

I guess what I really don’t understand is why anyone would want to lose control, even a little bit. I am very shy myself, but I have never wanted to turn to drinking in order to take that away. I prefer to work on it slowly, the ‘natural’ way, so to speak.

Losing one’s objectivity, one’s ability to reason clearly, to me, is a frightening thought. I’m not sure why I feel that way, I just do. The only thing I fear more than getting drunk and losing my ability to think clearly is suffering from a massive stroke and losing my ability to think at all.

How do others feel about this? Is this just another way in which I am considered a social outcast? :stuck_out_tongue:

15

Mauve Dog, the control thing is something I don’t understand either. Unlike most of the others in this thread, I am (or was when I was younger) very outgoing. I found when I drank I just got more outgoing and did stupid things for attention. When I was about 21 my fun thing at parties when drinking was to go up to people and say “watch this” and then fall straight sideways. I was athletic and never got hurt but I finally realized what an ass I was making of myself. I pretty much stopped drinking by age 22 or 23 and now at age 46 still rarely drink because I don’t like to be out of control. But my opinion is I am in the minority about the control thing. Most people seem to take more of a middle ground position about it and don’t mind to be a certain amount out of control if the payoff is a general relaxed feeling of enjoyment.

16

My take on it is, if you know you’re going to do certain things while drunk, and you get drunk just so that you will do those things, why not do those things while sober? A person should rule their own inhibitions, not the other way around.

On a completely unrelated matter, I note that Mauve Dog already has 55 posts on his first day here-- That’s got to be some sort of record. By my calculations, he’ll catch up to handy sometime in November, if he keeps that rate up.
Welcome, dude, and can I come to your post count party tomorrow when you hit triple digits?

17

Alcohol gives the mind a vacation. However, like most things, people can take too much of it.

18

I would also like to add that drinking is also a cultural value. In many European countries, part of a halfway decent meal is a glass of wine or two (but indeed no more than that). Other countries prefer beer. In any case, drinking in moderation is a central part of life, and many medical studies have in fact verified that it can be good for one’s health. The same studies have, however, also clearly stated that any more than that moderate amount can begin to become detrimental.

I also believe that American society contributes to drinking excess with its drinking age laws, etc., thereby making drinking glamorous for younger people instead of teaching them to drink in moderation like much of the rest of the world. Not that there aren’t plenty of drunken louts in these other places, but I would say from experience that there is generally more of a balance.

Of course, there are people all over who don’t enjoy any alcohol, just as there are people who don’t enjoy other things, and that’s just fine too. Suffering being around alcoholics can of course be one of the factors leading to this.

19

Sorry, this is something of a hijack of this thread, but I agree with what was said earlier about about 80% of teenagers drinking cause it’s different and amusing. Hey, it’s relaxing too. But the main thrust of this thread is to say that alot of the problems related to alcohol stem from societies view of alcohol, which manifests itself mainly in the drinking age. Therefore, I rant;

Are we crazy with the law as it is?? One presumes that an infectious form of knee-jerk conservatism attacked the population during the setting of drinking law. The problem with alcohol is unrealistic societal views of what alcohol does to people. Thus, I shall follow yet again the well worn path of forcing my interpretation on people.

Guess what folks; we teenagers happen to drink before the law prescribes that we can. From a consensus among my friends, the average age that drinking started was around 15. And (shock/horror), this was done in the knowledge of it’s illegality under the law. This also means that the drinking usually took place in an ‘uncontrolled environment’. Yet now, believe it or not we actually tend, much like the adult population, to drink responsibly. We don’t drink and drive (the most condescending and insulting of reasons for upholding existing law). The law’s forbidding (except under vague and inane circumstances) of the sale of liquor to under 21 year olds has no effect, except creating more hazard in young people’s drinking, and many false ids.

I’ve also had the opportunity to live in Switzerland, a country where the legal drinking age is 16 and the sale of liquor unregulated. There, strangely conflicting of conservative theorems, teenagers start drinking no younger than here, and they drink less despite increased availability. For some reason (I’d guess at the fact it’s illegal) youth here drink very heavily, and this will only be altered through education and a change of our cultural attitudes, not State paternalism by the moral minority.

Anyway. Rant over.

20

Kind sir, you may be drinking a bit too much of the sauce. Mauve Dog registered in April 2000 and only has 56 posts, handy doesn’t need to worry.