So what's he doing wrong? (Job hunt questions)

Sorry to hear his location.
I’m in Akron.
This area is teh suck for jobs right now.
Good luck to him!

My financee is in a similar position, except she’s a recent college graduate. She graduated last May, and has been looking for jobs non-stop ever since, without much luck. She graduated with honors from a good school, and never expected to be unemployed almost a year later. Unfortunately, the job market here in the Detroit area isn’t very good, at least not for communications/public relations (which is what she wants to do). She’s been beat out for entry level positions more than once by people with 10+ years of experience.

The really frustrating thing is that she could easily have a job by now if she could move to the east coast. She interned with a PR firm in D.C. that loved her – they’ve offered her a job twice, and offered to find her something with some of their connections (all on the east coast.) But she’s trapped in Michigan until I finish my Ph.D. :frowning:

Anyway, you and your husband have my sympathies. I’ve seen for myself how rough the job search can be, both on the searcher and their loved ones.

Not much to add here, Elza, but you have my empathy! It’s tough to be in that position, and with a little one on the way, doubly so. You’re echoing a lot of the same things I felt when my husband was out a-looking for jobs and wasn’t getting interviews.

The only other thing I can add to the suggestions that have already been provided is “be willing to move”. I realize that may not be possible for some families, but if there’s a way to do it, consider it. The first time I got laid off, I got a job offer out of state that was offering almost double my income, but didn’t cover the loss of my husband’s if we moved. We thought about it, considered options, and ended up taking it. Turns out it was the best move we ever made, and my husband was working again within the month at the same company. Lucky, perhaps, but I’m confident that even if he hadn’t landed a job there, he would have found one elsewhere in the new state. We went from just under the poverty line to working middle class in no time flat, thanks to not being too terrified of moving away.

Now, unfortunately, 6 years later, we both got laid off, because the company closed the office. I was terrified, and we moved back towards family with the severance money. With both of us out of work, it was a nightmare, much like you’ve described. My husband did everything “right” too, had a good resume, but wasn’t getting interviews. We eventually got lucky with the contacts, and we’re squeaking by thanks to contract work that opened up for me, and a position my father had that my husband is currently filling. It’s not perfect, but it’s paying the bills.

We’re now to a point where we’re both looking for more stable employment. I don’t particularly like the idea of moving again, but we’ve located some opportunities outside of our immediate area that we’re willing to weigh the pros and cons of, and move if it’s worth our while financially.

My advice is:

-Be willing to move. Definately weigh the pros and cons of leaving your area and going somewhere else, even if it means losing YOUR job. It might be that your field is easier to find work in than your husbands. AND, moving after the babe is born and still young you have less to worry about with uprooting him/her during the school aged years. If there’s any such thing as a “good time”, children under the age of 5 are going to deal with it better than older kids. Besides, unborn children/infants/pre-daycare aged children can’t remind you how terrible you are for taking them away from their friends. :slight_smile: No cite, just personal experience. I -still- hear it from my 11 year old, daily, and discussions involving another possible move are met with an exasperated, “AGAIN???” :slight_smile: Oh, he’ll survive, if we go, but the less pre-teen strife surrounding it, the better. :slight_smile:

-DEFINATELY call in those contacts. The job I’m currently doing, while not my ideal, came from asking old co-workers for references. One of them happened to be in a capacity to offer me the contract work I’m doing currently. If your husband has any contacts to the staff from his former job, he should get ahold of them. Worst case, he’s got their contact info as references. Best case, one of them may know someone who knows someone…you know the drill.

-Talk to friends and family who work at other companies. A lot of times they know what positions are opening up at the companies they work for. My sister is constantly letting me know when entry level positions open up at her office, even though she knows I’m not interested in the corporate benefits field. And bless her for doing so, because, as she says, “it never hurts to keep your options open, and if you get desperate enough, it’s nice to know you have a reference from someone who already works there”. Truer words have never been spoken IMHO.

-Lastly, don’t be afraid to take a leap into the unknown if it feels right. Maybe there’s something your husband finds out there that pays a lot less than your family wants to be making right now, but has a solid potential for making more later as he gets more experience, and in a field he’ll enjoy. Consider your minimum income requirements, and work from there. Sometimes, the long term benefits of a job are worth considering more than the immediate gain of being employed.

I hope this helps some! All the other advice here is great! It sounds like your husband has decent management experience. I hope he finds something soon.

Re: the moving thing

If it weren’t for the fact that I am in a GREAT job that I absolutely love - he would be looking back in my hometown, and probably could get a job with my dad’s company (which he’s actually trying to do here, as well - he’s waiting to schedule his second interview). I work in non-profit, so while it’s not exactly lucrative, I’m in a fantastic position in a wonderful office that I adore, with flexibility for when the baby comes - with a boss who is intent on making sure that I get the necessary experience to move into what I’d like to do, so there’s definitely advancement in the future for me. I’m not sure I’ll get that at another office, although I could transfer to the same company in my hometown. There are no positions open there, though, so I’d have to wait for something to open up.

The other thing is, being pregnant, I’m not so sure I’d be able to find a job out there right now. I’m sure I could pull in some contacts and work for either my dad or one of his friends sans benefits, but as long as my husband was working with benefits, we’d be okay.

I’m loathe to give up my job here just yet…I really am. In another three months or so, if he still hasn’t found something, then we’ll seriously consider moving. We’ve also only been in our house for a year, so the worry would be losing money on that, too.

Believe me, moving is something we’ve considered - and the plan is definitely to move to my hometown within three - four years. But right now, it’s not quite feasible. I really wish it was because I dislike living here a lot.

He’s been reading over all of the advice, and I think some of it’s really starting to hit home - he’s learning that a passive approach to job-seeking really isn’t what’s going to find him a position. I’m proud of the way he’s been a bit more aggressive the past couple of days - we’re both still freaked out, but feeling more positive.

E.

Don’t underestimate the power of online job-hunting boards. I found my job through Monster after my current employer called me based on my posted resume.

Load it up with keywords. My resume has a section called “keywords” designed just for the auto-search programs.

Good luck.

Most people are flattered when I call them up asking for advice, and they’re itching to get out of the office-- or show somebody what they do in their office. They want recognition, and I’m more than happy to give it to them.

When I’m cold-calling, I’m not calling asking for work. And when I meet people in person, I still don’t ask for a job. I’ll freely admit to being in search of employment, and if they want to discuss my work background to know what my skills are, I’ll happily do that. But no way in hell am I showing up, cap in hand, trying to get work from this person. The bait and switch is rude, dishonest, and it always backfires.

What I am doing is trying to do is develop new contacts – that’s it. If the contact knows about openings somewhere else, that’s even better. And if the person can lead me to contacts at other companies, that’s ideal. I’m trying to find work, and I want as much help as I can get.

If they do offer me a job now, or a week or two months from now, that’s cool, and I won’t say no. But developing the new contact is more important.

Thoughts that come to mind:

-perhaps your location has an especially weak job market for his line of work.

  • how is he sending said resumes? Monster/Hotjobs/ Careerbuilder? Those tend to be awful to read. If he can, try and find an email address in the ad to send the resume to directly, or surf the company’s web site to try and find an email address.

  • is his cover letter too lengthy? Trying to be funny? Just a rehash of the resume? A form letter? None of these are good things.

  • has he jumped jobs a lot? Had only 1 or 2 jobs in his field (even if he’s been at them a long time)? Both can be weaknesses.

  • perhaps he needs to add clear value to his resume- certifications, licenses, related skills

  • try making a SWOT- Strengths Weaknesses Obstacles and Threats assessment.

Hopefully this will help.

Your husband may already be doing all of these things
1)
Work the contacts, he needs to tell everyone he is looking for work. Tell your mailman, tell your sunday school teacher, tell the cashier at the grocery store etc. Cantact everyone you ever worked with you can find. I have been told that 90% of all available jobs aren’t posted, that hasn’t been true for me but it doesnt’ hurt to work that angle as well. In addition to online job sites such as Careerbuilder and Monster, there are local networking groups. My church has one as well as having a career center. That was esp helpful to me since I was unemployed and I could fax resumes from there. If he went to college, check the local schools for career centers. Apply for everything close to what he is looking for even he doesn’t have all of the experience they are looking for. The job I just got, on my third day of interviews as I was walking through the facility to the interview room with the head of HR, I heard someone call my name. One of the Managers I had worked for 5 years ago now works for the temporary staffing company was there checking up the employees he had placed there. so I had a good recommendation as well as someone to find out the scoop on the company so I was able to make a decision once they made an offer.

Attitude really matters. I recently went through a seminar in interviewing and it helped me a lot just to practise as well as listening to the others mumble through theirs and noticing what really distracted. He is selling himself but at the same time he is looking to see whether it is a good fit for him as well. My local employment security office had a lot of helpful classes as well. Read the onlinestuff on how to interview and the books at the library. Practise how to answer key questions like “Tell me about yourself” “Why do you want to work here?” “What are your key strengths and weaknesses?” “Do you have questions for us?” Read up on the company. Practise and preparation will take you a long way.

This may not be a good time to be looking for a new career with a new baby on the way. A secure home comes first then job satisfaction. And it is easier to find a job when you are already working even if it is delivering pizza. which I did for quite awhile when jobs were scarce here. Pride and having an interesting job were way down the list after paying the bills. I kept myself amused by critiquing people homes and decorating.

It would have helped me a lot to have someone look at what I was sending before I sent it. I tended to have a basic cover letter that I copy and pasted then changed a few key things in and then sent out. I discovered at one point I had badly garbled a sentence in the middle of the paragraph and not only sent it to that prospective employer but 4 or 5 more besides. I was quite embarassed. The point though is after you write the same spiel several times you tend to go autopilot and possibly not check as closely as you should. always make sure the cover letter addresses any key points such as salary history. Many HR people will not consider your resume if they say include salary requirements and you don’t at least address that issue.

Job search is a numbers game. When I was looking a couple of years ago it was someothing like 50 resumes sent for 1 call back. 10 callback/1st interviews for a second interview and 5 second interviews for an offer and at least 3 offers to get one viable one. It is very hard being unemployed.

Be nice to everyone, keep a big smile on your face like you are thrilled to be meeting everyone there and send a thank you letter to everyone who spends any time talking to you. Write down everyone’s name and after the interview is over jot down notes on what is said and by whom.

Teh job I just started, I interviewed over two months and with 9 people at that company. The security people knew me on sight byt the time I actually started. I was also about to be offered another postion but they wouldn’t have been able to make the offer for another week and I felt it best to take the sure job offered over the possible one coming up that may not have been all I hoped. (I had called the other company when I received the offer to see where they stood and I sent them another letter letting them know I had taken the first position). I was unempolyed for 2 months to the day.

Good luck to both of you, I will be thinking about you.

No offense to Barbarian, but be carefull with this. Most assistants (especially if you’re dealing at the executive level) are not stupid. Our radar for someone who wants to take up our bosses time with his own purposes (from salespeople to job seekers) is pretty sharp. You can call every day for a month. You’ll still talk to me, and I still won’t put you through. I know when I’m being conned, and as the keeper of my boss’s schedule I KNOW when I’m being lied to. Unless you’re looking for a sales position (where agression of this type is valued), you’re not doing yourself any favors by pissing off an EA. Her opinion is likely valued by her boss, and she can help or harm your case, depending on how you behave. (After interviews, my boss always asks me what my perception of the interviewee was. Admins are often the barometers of the company culture)

Don’t treat her like an adversary to get past. Chat up the admin in a friendly manner and you just might get your resume left on the boss’s desk. I have, more than once, left a resume on my boss’s desk with a post-it saying so-and-so dropped it off, and I thought it might interest him, because the job seeker was nice to me. I’ve also sent them to the black hole commonly refered to as HR, if the person tried to scam me.

Your husband sounds like a generalist rather than a specialist. I’d listen to the observations of another poster’s keyword search process–it definitely sounds like he’s getting lost because computers aren’t finding anything special in his resume. Research, research, research and put lots of “buzz words” in the resume.

My experience has shown that applying for a job (that includes sending out a resume) is worthless. You have to either network in, or get hunted down. Note, I am not talking about a grunt retail job, where applying still works.

Networked in: Church, clubs, fraternal Org, old bosses, friends, politcial contacts, etc. If he doesn’t belong to a Fraternal Org (find out which two are the most active there in your town- JC’s, Masons, Elks, whatever) have him go join them. Sooner or later there’ll be a “Hey, Brother Bob needs someone at his company, I told him you were in the market, he’s expecting your resume”.

Hunted down: This means posting the right sort of resume on Monster, Careerbuilders, etc. Since your husband has had no hits, he hasn’t posted the right kind of resume. The right kind of resume works by HOT KEYWORDS, they don’t really read the damn thing. So, spend a couple hundred $$, and get a Pro to re-write the resume with the current hot keywords. It may be lovely and a work of art, but unless it has the current hot keywords the headhunters search for in his field, he’ll never get found.

For those of you that think sending out resumes work- My brother had sent a resume to a company, and they said “no thanks”. Meanwhile, his on-line resume hit and he was headhunted by a top Consulting company, and was brought in as a consultant-fill to the very job he had applied for, and a couple months later, he went Perm. And, his resume has gotten constant hits, with constant offers. Sure, quite a few require moving out of State, but the $$'s offered are substantial. Not a single job application or “resume sent” got back anything but a rejection notice, and other than the job he took, he has been “headhunted” now by two other companies that rejected his resume/application.

I got my current job through networking, and the same with my last.

Note that the newspaper business is dying. :frowning:

Note that the IRS is hiring Revenue Agents and Tax auditors- with a BA he qualfies for Tax auditor (he’ll have to take basic accounting at nite school after he gets hired if he doesn’t already have it). But apply now. You can get all sorts of neat Fed jobs with a BA.

Amen to that. When I was at Bell Labs I had a boss who, when he went to a new location on a visit, would first go around and introduce himself to all the secretaries (this was before the name change.) This was a high level guy. A few years later, when I was visiting him when he was running a plant in Denver, his secretary saved me a night sleeping in Stapledon airport by making me a motel reservation, just in case, when I left for the airport in a snowstorm.

Having said that, hardly anyone under senior director level has an admin any more - at least not in Silicon Valley.

The market is as good now as it ever is (not counting the bullshit 90s).

Basically the usual job search guidlines are as follows:

  1. Decide what you want to do and what you are qualified to do. “Anything” is not an acceptible answer. Likewise, applying for a job you are nowhere nearly qualified for will also provide disappointing results.

  2. Create at most 4 or so resumes that target specific jobs. Your resumes should tell a compelling story of progression in your career.

  3. Post online at all the sites - HotJobs, CareerBuilder, etc.

  4. Find the top 100 or so companies in whatever industry you are interested in (sounds like a lot but hey…what else do you have to do all day?). Instead of applying online, try to find people who work there through your school or other alumni network. Apply through them. If you don’t know them, just send a brief email introducing yourself and asking if you can talk to them about their company and your interests. Don’t just be like “I’m looking for any job”.

  5. Attend any social event where there is a chance of making professional contacts, no matter how boring the event is. Get as many business cards as you can.
    I was out of work for 6 months in 2002 when the market was terrible. Most of these methods worked to some degree.

Thank you, I should have been more elaborate in this response.

You always want to get the secretary/assistant on your side, but I’ve met far too many mean/stupid/incompetent assistants who are straight out of a Dilbert cartoon. Luckily that was after I was already employed :wink: