"So when is Dark Knight 2 coming out?"

It’s hard to imagine any version of the Riddler that’s not campy.

To be fair, wasn’t this the movie that used the term “Jason X” in a different context within the movie? And how many 7th graders know how many Friday the 13th movies there are? And what the hell are they doing watching it anyway?

I am realling hoping they don’t recast joker. I don’t think they need to. I’m kind of upset about Harvey Dent though, would have been a sweet villain for a third movie.

I’m not sure what villain they will use for the next film. Honestly, since they have talked so much about the mob, I think it will be Penguin. Danny Devito perhaps? I think he could do a much better job this time.

Agreed. I can see it being done with the Penguin. He doesn’t need a costume other than the tuxes, and they could really focus on his defining characteristics as being a mob boss with a highly aristocratic affect. A love of birds could be worked in. I think the umbrellas could be worked in too, but they’d have to tread carefully there. Still, I think you’d have a better chance to make a plausible, non-campy character out of him than you would out of the Riddler. Maybe if they focused on the game playing aspects and the death trap stuff (they could go in a “Saw” kind of direction, I suppose), but the freaking question mark costume would have to go.

I think every one of the villains in the Batman world are rather campy by design. I think this is the first Joker that was finally evil enough to trump the camp.

I think I’d be bored by the Penguin, unless they really made him sinister. But there’s a lot of possibilities with the Riddler. Like everything else Nolan’s done with these movies, he can completely reinvent the character and make him fit in the world better. Yes, question mark suit needs to go away. But an affinity for green, maybe a “?” tattoo somewhere, and definitely an evil love for gameplay, traps, trickery, puzzles and such to work in really gut-wrenching ways. I think of some kind of mix between Se7en and the Zodiac killer… but more twisted. Maybe the Penguin could still be mixed in there somewhere as well.

I thought the Penquin movie sucked. I was embarassed for all the actors concerned.

If you really want to confuse them, tell them about the movie Malcolm X.

Is that one of the movie spin offs from Malcom in the Middle? :slight_smile:

That was my first thought re: The Riddler as well (The “Saw” angle) and as for the costume I was thinking more on the level of a cutter that puts question marks into his skin or homemade tattoos.

If they make it the Riddler, they should introduce a few new supporting cast members, not have the Riddler revealed until the end, and include a murder mystery angle in the plot.

Or, just reinvent Cat Woman. Still she has issues that DON’T involve Halle Berry.

Because I agree that Riddler and Penguin are iffy. Joker, Scarecrow, and Two-Face are the best legitimate villains. Ra’s al Ghul, probably my next favorite, was also used in the first film, so maybe he could come back (I hear he does that).

The other main villains are questionable. Catwoman is too S&M. Penguin is too bizzare. Riddler is too silly.

The real trick is, keeping them in the psuedo-real world that Nolan’s Batman inhabits.

I think that eliminates Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy. They are SUPER Villians. Bane has largely the same problem (plus, all three were in you know what together!)

Using the same criteria, you can exclude Clayface,

Zsasz appeared in the first one in a cameo. He would be an interesting, but little known adversary. Black Mask is also a lesser known villian they could use.

Firefly would be interesting. Serial Arson could only demoralize Gotham more. Deadshot could be good. Maybe a rogue special forces operative steals some of Wayne technology.

Not sure how they’ll top Joker/Two-Face though.


In the first few appearances of the Joker, he was every bit as evil and demented as the one in Dark Knight. In his very first appearance, he is a serial killer. It was not campy at all, but very dark.

In fact, I don’t see the Dark Knight version as a reinvention of the Joker so much as a return to his roots.

Shouldn’t it be “The Dark Night 2 (Batman Begins 3)(Batman 7)”?

Why is Catwoman too S&M? She’s a cat burgler who dresses in form fitting spandex. More or less just like Batman. And why is Penguin too bizarre, he’s a mobster with high-falootin’ taste and an umbrella that has a gun (or a sword) hidden inside. Don’t let Tim Burton fool you.

And Bane is just a mobster hopped up on his own personal brand of steroids. Considering the current climate in Major League Baseball, it could be very timely.

I figure Catwoman almost has to show up in the next movie. The other villains I’m willing to lay bets on are Poison Ivy and Harlequin–I don’t think there’s any better time to introduce Harley.

IMDb agrees with you:

(emphasis added)

You could do Poison Ivy if you dropped the deadly touch thing, and made her an expert with natural toxins. Bane’s super steroids don’t seem any more out of place in Nolan’s Gotham than Scarecrow’s fear gas. I don’t see Freeze working, which is a shame, because thematically, he’d fit in great with this franchise, if it weren’t for the super science.

Freeze’s Freeze Gun is no more out there than the microwave gun Ra’s used in the first movie. The one that vapourized all the water in the pipes, but didn’t do anything to the ground water, or the water in the people that it had to pass through to get AT the pipes. Call it a blast of liquid nitrogen and don’t imply everyone survives, and you’ve got something every bit as realistic.

I think the problem for this series going forward is going to be villain fatigue. The ideas in this thread, which are mostly very good and interesting ideas, are illustrative.

I saw Dark Knight on Saturday, and it was very good to excellent, I thought. Ledger’s Joker, though, was excellent to legendary, which is great for the movie, but bad for the Franchise, capital “F.” Not only did Ledger give about as good a performance as you’re ever going to get out of an actor, he did it with the single most interesting and iconic villain in the canon.

Honestly, after Dark Knight, it’s going to be hard to generate a real sense of menace, versus ennui. I mean, Crispin Glover with a bunch of question mark scars putting people in Saw-style deathtraps would have made for a cool movie, but post-Joker it’d feel limp and lifeless. Ditto Paul Giamatti with a monocle. Angelina Jolie in skintight black leather would be entertaining in it’s own way, I guess, but Catwoman was never really a villain in the dark sense of that word, so you can’t build a movie around her.

I think the only way to solve it would be to de-emphasize the villain in a putative third movie, to put Batman more front and center and let the villain(s) be truly supportive or even incidental. To that end, I think lower-profile villains would work. A female villain would help, too - Talia Al Ghul? Poison Ivy could fit, if treated as an eco-terrorist instead of a Camp Queen - just to change the vibe.

It’ll be interesting, at least, to see where they’re going to go next.

Penguin could really have a go with this umbrella, at a meeting of the local bosses a la Al Capone in The Untouchables.

Blood droplets splattered on a monocle would make a killer movie poster, IMHO.

At least it makes the board meetings a little less boring, wouldn’t you say?

This seems like the appropriate time to mention how much fun it was to emerge from the theater after seeing Return of the King exclaiming how I “couldn’t wait for the fourth one.”