So, which part of my life do I give up to avoid being raped?

The BBQ Pit
161

Well… it is very hard to change. Men are already educated that rape is wrong, so more education probably won’t help. In my opinion, rape is a pathology, a sickness, and a crime. There may indeed be no way to eliminate rape from the population, just like you can’t eliminate Trisomy 23. Mutations will always pop up, no matter what you do.

So, while we’re working on changing, however slowly, this situation with date rape, we can certainly teach women to be as prepared and safe as possible for assault rape.

Are we agreed on this point at least? Education about risk factors, not legislation and curefws? Self directed behavior and personal assesment of trade offs?

162

I can agree with you on the last point, but not the first one. If rapists are born that way, and there is nothing that a family or society can do about it, there would be no variation in rape rates across societies. Possibly some racial variation (I’d love to see a researcher with the balls to study that one), but no societal variation.

163

Not necessarily. There may very well be both societal and organic variables, maybe operating in conjunction or seperately. Perhaps, for example, a survival instinct (rape a woman and we kill you) might trigger a biological reaction so that a rapist would value their survival over a planned rape. I don’t know, I just think that, more likely than not, the causes of rape are not solely societal.

164

Wanted to address this, then went home and forgot.
I know what you are saying is not particular to rape. It’s just good sense. Unfortunately, it is seen by many rape victims as further responsibility of what they should have done to avoid being raped. It more than likely isn’t meant that way, but what is heard is “Well, of COURSE you got raped, it’s your own damn fault, what the hell were you doing in that part of town at 10pm/2am/4am/whenever the hell ??” As if being there was enough to get the victim raped and she should have expected it.
Again, I understand it isn’t meant in that vein, but that is how it sounds. Mainly because most victims do feel some responsibility for having been raped. Every single one of the victims that I’ve treated has felt to some extent that she was responsible, and could somehow have avoided being raped if only she had done something differently.

165

No, but it’s mine.
Wow and whoa. I’m learning fast.

166

A couple of links. This: http://www.theennead.com/amptoons/blog/archives/2004/12/09/various-links-to-various-places/

links to a DOJ study that found that the conviction rate for rape was rediculously low. It got almost no coverage in the newspapers when it came out.

Here’s the actual report:

http://www.mith2.umd.edu/WomensStudies/GenderIssues/Violence+Women/ResponsetoRape/

This:
http://www.theennead.com/amptoons/blog/archives/category/mary-koss-controversy/

talks about how the 1 in four statistic constantly gets misquoted and misused, usually by people like catsix.

This speculates on how many rapists there are on college campuses.

http://www.theennead.com/amptoons/blog/archives/2004/05/05/a-further-thought-on-all-these-rape-statistics/

167

It’s my opinion of the people who buy into the prepetual victimhood statements of feminazis (aka misandrists) such as Koss, Brownmiller, Dworkin, MacKinnon, Warshaw, Gandy, Greer, Friedan, Steinem, et al.

People who use shoddy research with carefully worded surveys in order to produce the kind of answers they want in order to garner attention and need in order to not go out of business.

If you have a problem with my demand for something better than a survey designed to create a desired statistic and an ability for those who claim to have a genuine interest in violent crimes to see through it, then you are no better than those who created it.

What restrictions? You are still free to go where you please and do as you please provided you are not in the custody of the criminal justice system or a member of the active military, are you not?

So, you’re going to have to prove that every day civilian women who are not in prison are under some kind of ‘restriction’. You can’t just claim they are and have me believe it.

Actually, I don’t listen to Rush. I don’t do talk radio, ever. I listen to Jim & Randy on WDVE 102.5 in the mornings and then either WRRK’s classic rock or WDVE’s mix of classic and modern the rest of the time that I’m in the car. When not in the car, I don’t do radio.

I believe I stated that already, but just to make it really clear for you, I’ll say it again.

Anyone who states that ‘Men are rapists.’ and/or believes that a man who feels that he has been demonized or unfairly labeled by this statement is doing so out of guilt that he might become a rapist is a bigot.

Progress for people like you will only come when you’ve converted everyone to your ideology.

I’ve read it. It’s the same misandrist tripe it was before, and that’s not going to change. You seem to assume that because I disagree with what a bunch of feminists think that I’ve never read any of it. On the contrary, I’ve read far, far too much of it.

The opinion of a feminist is hardly an ironclad cite. It’s blinded by bias.

Your own cite says that the offender gets sexual gratification out of what he does to the victim. To the offender it is about sex. And obviously it means something other than a mugging would to a woman or we’d also have mugging crisis hotlines and not just rape crisis hotlines.

You might. I don’t.

Guess you’ve never read anything Dworkin wrote, have you?

No, I hate bigots. Although if it makes you feel better to think I hate all women, you go right on ahead believing that. I have no reason to defend myself to you.

Learning that I didn’t eat up the shit ‘touchy feely’ soft-on-research crap that passes for ‘women’s studies’ but instead opted for the hard and definitive proof of something like engineering? I could see how that’d frustrate someone who did opt for feelings over proof.

Yeah, if you actually require valid statistical research from a feminist, they just bitch that you’re ‘misusing’ their made up numbers. Hell, I’ve even had them tell me that applying actual mathematics to their studies is a misogynistic action because it ‘forces them to comply with a patriarchal system’ known as mathematics. I mean really, how dare I ever demand more proof than a touchy feely test with a deliberately misleading survey at the core of it.

168

Margin:

Misquoted and misused? (I like the ad hominem).
Your own cite says that the actual rate of rape is about one in eight, with attempted rape making up the other four.

Don’t get me wrong, attempted rape is a crime deserving prosecution like anything else, but it is disingenuous, at best, to claim that there is a 1-in-4 for rape.
Such debating tactics are not a good omen, eh?
I’d also like to see the survey questions, sample size, etc…

And, this study about college rape… yeeeeeesh. Again, I don’t have acess to the actual data, methodology, etc…
But, several very valid points: Pointing out that it’s an invalid sample size to generalize to the larger population is not an “anit-feminist” tactic, it’s a response of logic and statistics. Whatever insinuations of ‘wanting to ignore the data we have.’ to the contrary.
The first and most obvious complication with this study is that, if anything, it is applicable to college culture. Attempting to extrapolate a bunch of away-from-home-for-the-first-time-beer-stealing-fake-ID-gettin’ people’s data to the general populace is always a dicey move, wouldn’t you agree? Otherwise, one might conclude that drinking till you puke is frighteningly common and a societal problem!

This is not to trivialize rape, just the methodology used to support this particular study. The conclusions may very well be true, but so far I’ve seen the “real” figure shrink from 25% (75 million women) to 12% (37 million five hundred thousand women). Now I don’t know about y’all, but that disapearance of millions of people from one ‘fact’ to the other ‘fact’ suggests that someone’s playing fast and loose with the ‘facts’.

You will pardon me if I now refuse to grant total credibility to arguments which rely upon bogus “reality”.

Yes, the “real” number is something, and if we don’t conduct proper studies, we don’t get proper results.

169

Well, I’m sorry, but the vast majority of rapes are not perpetrated by small furry beings from Alpha Centauri. They are perpetrated by males of the specie Homo Sapien. In other words: men. Whether or not you choose to believe that is entirely up to you.

Yup. I believe we should prosecute rapists, educate as much as possible and, as eleanorigby said, find the underlying reasons for rape and work to fix them. Ain’t it awful? :rolleyes:

I don’t know what you’ve read to lead you to these ridiculous conclusions. That’s why I keep asking for cites. Which, BTW, you have yet to provide. Shit or get off the pot, already.

This from the woman who thinks the American Academy for Forensic Studies is a feminazi organization? Honey…up the dosage.

Look, you may or may not have a point. However, I don’t see any reason why I should give your silly assed opinion any respect without cites or proof. As far as I can tell, you’re just an angry little girl who thinks that everyone else is on the same experience and intellectual level as one of the freshman classes you apparently T.A. Hate to break it to ya, honey, but such is not the case.

170

Will you please cut this bigoted bullshit out? Yes, most women who’re raped are raped by men. However, the fact that most women who’re raped are raped by men is not proof that most men are rapists.

Black males, for instance, make up about half the prison population in America. And yet, it would still not be acceptable to say “Black men are criminals.”

Now, this is not about race (damnit). This is about the fact that it’s recognized that you shouldn’t be bigoted against folks with darker skin, but males, (and especially white males. And damn, of course, dead white males), can be the object of bigotry freely.

To sum up “Men are rapists.” “Black men are criminals.”
What, exactly, is the difference? Does it matter if I change it to any other group?

171

Women are street whores.

172

Yes, but are the vast majority of street whores women?

173

[url=http://www.bayswan.org/stats.html]yes**

Some women are street whores.
The large majority of street whores are women.
Women are street whores.

Right?

174

If I am communicating myself so badly, I hope I can chalk it up to a bad cold and good cold medicine. I’ll have to try again in a couple of days.

175

Damn coding monkey not doing it’s job…

176

No. The vast majority of street whores are women. Not all women are street whores.
The vast majority of rapists are men. Not all men are rapists.

See how that works?

177

Then stop saying men are rapists!!!
See how that works?

178

I did’t. Go back and look. I said the vast majority of rapes are perpetrated by men.

179

In response to the fact that saying “men are rapists” is bigoted, you responded with the above.

Can you at least say, now, that saying “men are rapists” is bigoted and false-to-facts, as well as being inflamatory?

Unless of course, Women Are Streetwhores.
Or ,say, most whores are women, I wonder if most female whores are drug addicts? That’d mean that Women are Drugged Out Street Whores. Right?

Men are not rapists, women are not streetwhores. People are defined by their behavior, not someone else’s generalization.

180

FInn, I said most rapes are perpetrated by men. What would you have me do? It’s not bigotry, it’s fact, according to the AMA. I am not saying that all men are rapists. I haven’t, and I won’t. Saying that the majority of rapes are committed by men is not the same thing as saying “all men are rapists.” And if you continue to insist on seeing it that way, even though I’ve explained otherwise, then I’d say you’re looking for offense where none is intended.