That just means you are not a good judge of the relative fame of entertainers. Nothing wrong with that, your interests lie elsewhere. That doesn’t mean he’s not a very famous entertainer.
I think you miss the point. Yes he is famous. Lots of people know his name. And if someone watches stand up they have highly likely seen his work. If someone doesn’t watch stand up? I think you underestimate how many of us there are who don’t, who are are more like @StarvingButStrong than you. Who have not seen “Everyone Hates Chris”, who might know Mr. Rock’s voice best as the voice of a zebra …
Compared to how many are very aware of his being slapped the shit out of.
No data to offer. No real argument to make. I just know lots more like @StarvingButStrong (and to a lesser degree, myself) than I know people like you, and guess that the near half who voted for Trump who I don’t know likely lean that way even more.
Anyway. Hoping to be wrong. But if I was Mr. Rock I’d be fearful of that outcome and leaving with that fear is a real harm.
You can take any person, no matter how famous, and find tons and tons of people who have no idea who they are. This is as true for Will Smith as it is for Chris Rock. But to the extent that fame is an objectively measurable quality, Chris Rock is one of the most famous men in America. The fact that you or StarvingButStrong aren’t personally familiar with his work is entirely meaningless. It’s the definition of anecdotal evidence.
He even says he knows him from his voice work. That counts as knowing him.
The idea that only people who watch stand up comedy specials know who Chris Rock is is just so bizarre.
And the “something to be said” is “Aw hell, no!”
He can’t be famous! I’ve never heard of him!
mmm
Violence is violence, whether it is verbal, physical or legally sanctioned through the justice system. Saying it’s never OK to lay hands on another person is silly but whatever. This has nothing to do with the Will Smith case anymore.
No. Verbal violence is not the same as physical violence. Not saying there’s no such thing as verbal violence, just that a trite “violence is violence” is just facile wordplay, sophistry of the worst kind.
That’s your (silly) opinion.
Whether violence is an appropriate response to words is very much to do with this case.
There is serious misunderstanding, and I think misrepresentation, of what the point is but I’m not going to go back and forth over it.
@Pedro, I can imagine circumstances. But agreed not in the scope of this CS thread. Clearly you agree: this was not a circumstance that it was ethically justified to respond with physical force, even had there been a truly malicious vile joke made.
We know insult comedy (including a lot of Rock’s routines) is not illegal. But, should it be reigned in by public opinion? By the perpetually offended?
I, for one, say absolutely not. I view stand-up comedians (the good ones anyway) as modern day philosophers. They examine social and political interactions and life in general, then present their often brilliantly insightful interpretation in a humorous manner. They not only make us laugh; they make us think. We need them.
If you don’t like the interpretations of particular comedians, nobody is forcing you to watch. They aren’t breaking into your houses, tying you up, prying open your eyes (Clockwork Orange style) and performing their routines in front of you. Don’t like them? Don’t watch.
Should society give everyone the same social pass to insult? No! I don’t want my primary care physician joking about my hemorrhoids anymore than I want my favorite stand-up comedians treating them. Different permissions for different occupations. Stand-up comedians should be permitted to insult, with impunity.
Most people can take a joke. Bill Burr (another favorite comic of mine) famously turned a hostile, booing audience, into laughter and a standing ovation by ripping them and their beloved city (Philadelphia) to shreds. I’m from Philly. Philly audiences are brutal. Turning them around as Burr (a rival Bostonian) did takes a great deal of talent.
The Bill Burr 12-minute Philly Rant. Very NSFW
Why not?
Are insult comics given some pass from dealing with consequences of their speech?
When a comic goes off on a racist or transphobic rant in my mind expressed public opinion condemning it, even mocking it, is precisely the appropriate response.
Chris Rock is not an insult comic. He’s not particularly known for his crowd work. He isn’t safe for work but he’s generally a comic who builds routines around his life and observations of the world. He has an entire special about his divorce and how he screwed up his marriage. I would never call him and insult comic. The Oscars are a different type of gig. The comics are supposed to riff on the situation and the participants.
The Bill Burr rant is classic. It was during the Opie and Anthony Traveling Virus Tour. Lots of great comics on stage. Right before Burr the crowd was booing Dom Irrera who is an old school Philly legend comic. It pissed Burr off and the rant just bubbled up unplanned.
Right. I didn’t say the same, verbal violence can be worse. And I’m sure a fair number of people would prefer a severe beating than 5 year stint in prison just to give an example.
OK, if you insist. Will smith had a ridiculous overreaction to a very mild, almost friendly ribbing by a host performing his job. It was inappropriate. And cowardly as well. He was certainly reacting to some deeper issues because that was not a normal reaction by any standard. Normal well adjusted people don’t go from laughing to slapping on a dime like that.
There you go.
Sure, express your opinion about any thing or any one at all. That’s what critics are for. But, what I see a lot of today is, “I don’t like it, and that means you shouldn’t like it and I’m going to work to get it canceled.”
Yep. Before this, I’d say he would be most remembered for the “Niggas vs Black People” bit (that he has since disowned because it gave some racists the idea they could freely use the word “nigger”) . That and, ironically, the movie Good Hair.
That’s true. I should have said that he’s a stand-up comic that sometimes insults, and an insult resulted in his being battered.
Not specifically that bit but that entire special was what elevated him to be an elite comic. It certainly changed the way I looked at him. It’s fair to think it’s now dated or to feel the subject matter of that routine had a bad effect but looking at it objectively it was finely crafted hour of comedy. In recent years the streaming market is flooded with specials from comics that have a decent ten minutes but put out an hour. That Rock hour was a masterclass of timing and writing.
Maybe. I can’t recall him every using insult humor in a routine. The Oscars are different. From Bob Hope on it has always used some roasting of the celebrities. On the GGs Ricky Gervais took it to another level. But like he says he never got in trouble because he always went after the stars actions and not things they couldn’t help.
Funny that we are still talking about this little throw away joke. I’m sure most people didn’t see it live. Those that did watch it live wouldn’t have remembered it 5 minutes later. The any of Rock’s appearance probably wouldn’t have made it to either the best of or worse of clips of the show. Will Smith really should look up the Streisand Effect.
This also could easily become a hijack, and is a subject covered on these boards before … Dave Chapelle and allegedly transphobic bits; Spotify, Joe Rogan, and Neil Young; heck the long ago dropping the recently deceased Gilbert Godfrey due to a too soon joke about the Japanese disaster.
Whenever I read “perpetually offended” my mind substitutes “those who have different things that offend them than I do”.
Personally I think voting with both your feet and with whatever social influence you may have is fair game.
Trying to stay on thread subject, IF Mr Rock HAD said something truly hateful, inappropriate, and below the belt (he had not), then the Smiths verbally complaining about it would have been fine. Public shunning of him as an ass might have happened. Producers might have dropped him. He’s not owed our viewership. It’s how the marketplace works.
But Mr Rock’s comment was a nothingburger and the reaction to it was not a speech action.
I’m in my fifties, I’ve seen a lot of movies over the years, and I’d never heard of the film G I Jane until the fateful night two weeks ago.
That’s awesomely put.