Some Homebrewing Questions

There is an old thread that I haven’t searched for that I outlined how to really go cheap.

IMHO those plastic buckets with a big lid suck ass for homebrewing. The lids are tough to get off.

Here’s the crux of doing it cheap.

  1. Get a 5 gallon water bottle/plastic carboy. It’s food grade.
    2.Get a cork and airlock that fits the little push in part on the carboy.
  2. hop bag
  3. hand bottle capper
  4. enough bottles
  5. siphon hose (and I recommend the spring loaded end so you can put it in the bottle, push down and the beer comes out, then let up when the bottle is full. I do this outside or in the bathtub)
    That’s all the equipment you need.

To do it really simply. Get two of the hopped beer kits like this. That will make you 5-6 gallons (remember beer is pretty forgiving and pound more or less ma. lt will alter the flavor but should still be tasty.)

Or if you want to do more, get a hopped kit. In parallel, also make a wort out of ~2-3 pounds malt and/or honey and use an ounce or so of hops, boil for an hour, then pitch.

Keep the carboy about 2/3 full of water, prepare the concentrated hopped malt according to instructions. Pour into the carboy. When cooled to room temperature (and this may take a few hours), then pitch your yeast that you started the night before.

The night before, start your yeast in a big bottle with an airlock and some malt and/or honey. It should be going well in the morning or whenever you actually brew up. It should be really going so that when you pitch the yeast, it immediately ferments and doesn’t allow wild yeast to get started.

Keep the airlock in, fill it with vodka or other neutral spirits. Let it sit for a couple of weeks until fully fermented. When you’re sure the fermentation is stopped (eg, no bubbles in the airlock for a week), then pour in a solution of priming fermentables, fill and cap your bottles. If you wait this long, then you don’t have to use the specific gravity indicator. Another advantage is that the less you muck around with your beer after pitching the yeast the less likely it will become contaminated. When I first started, I fiddled around a lot. After a while, relax don’t worry have a homebrew and say “I’ll do it next weekend when I’m sure the primary fermentation has stopped.”

This is really the bare bones equipment needed. The plastic carboys that bottle water comes in works fine. I’ve literally done at least a hundred batches this way. I only use once and then get a new plastic carboy.

I’ve also done the Coopers stout kit with 3 pounds of honey and “some” hops at least a dozen times and always thought that was pretty tasty.

Flip top bottles are pretty easy for the most part. I haven’t checked for a decade but I’m sure that brewing shops can sell you those and then you can avoid capping.

Anyhoo, I recommend you try a couple of times and see if you like brewing. The kit + wort gives you experience in brewing, tasty results and is really easy to get the basics figured out. If you like it, then start upgrading your equipment and migrate toward all grain brewing.

You can make award winning beer using extract. Again, as chuck papazian would say: don’t worry, relax, and have a homebrew.

Apologies for the UK pricing, but here goes. All savings based on paying £3.50 for a good beer in a pub.

A lot of the kit can be obtained used. We had a lucky find in a charity shop that saw us fill a VW polo full of barrels, demijohns, bottling kit and other wine/beer making stuff for £15. We felt obliged to give the shop more money. This kit would get you started off with 40 pints for £70 and Woodfordes Wherry is a very pleasant ale. The second time you brew it, the kit costs £20 or just a bit over 50p per pint, although you may need some more sterilising solution and beer caps if you are bottling your ale.

That’s another thing. Unless you are planning on brewing 5 gallons for a party, I would bottle the beer rather than making a keg. It keeps longer in the bottle. Stop recycling. Save your empties!

It’s one of those hobbies that you may find you gather more gadgets over time.

Sort of. You may find yourself collecting all the latest brewing gadgets. Stop when it takes over your entire house. I don’t know what a pint costs in the US, but in the UK you will certainly save money.

Start with a kit, so you at least have an understanding of the process, then experiment with recipes. Find out if there’s a brew shop or club near you, or unleash Google… Even your President has been getting in on the act. Ale to the Chief! I’ve been meaning to give the White House honey ale a try.

We spend an hour in the kitchen starting a brew, then the bucket sits in a corner doing its thing. There’s three crates of beer in my hallway, some spare fermenters and bottles in the loft, and a 5 ream a4 paper box with the rest of the kit sitting in the spare room. My friend brews in his utility room which is so small, you can touch two walls with your hands and the other two walls with your feet and still has room to brew and do his washing. His rhubarb wine is excellent.

You would hope not. But then I read this. Then more worrying I read http://www.kegworks.com/blog/2012/03/08/homebrewers-setup-mistaken-for-meth-lab-030812/#sthash.UqzcrjB3.dpbs.

Also, don’t just stick to beer. We are in the hedge fruit season, so see if there are brambles (blackberries) growing nearby, or elderberries. Even oak leaves make a very pleasant wine.

Have fun

I agree with the above in that I’d start with a beer kit instead of buying all the ingredients separately. One caveat would be to ditch the dry yeast and use the liquid. It seems to work better.

Here’s a place I’ve ordered from before and they are pretty good. If you have a local homebrew store, it would be even better. You can buy a starter equipment kit there for $65. As you get more into it, you’ll find yourself buying more and better equipment.

A wort chiller really made the process a lot easier for me. Otherwise, have an empty sink and a couple bags of ice ready for when you pull the pot off the heat, and stir stir stir.

Probe thermometers are great - the kind you use for roasting, etc. Drop the probe in the pot and you can see when it hits the appropriate (per recipe) temperatures.

I actually got one of these. It’s awesome for testing the temp of my mash at various places and depths. It’s also good for seeing how my strike water’s doing and my various boosts.

  1. How much does the initial investment cost to get an operation going from the ground up?
    — A. About $100 - $200.
    You’ll need:
  • fermenting bucket
  • airlock
  • bottling bucket (it is drilled for a tap at the bottom so you can bottle from it. Not strictly necessary, but helpful)
  • brew kettle (big pot, make sure it is about at least a couple of gallons larger than your expected brewing quantity or it will boil over)
  • thermometer (don’t want to kill the year by pitching in hot wort)
  • Bottling wand (get the spring loaded one, it’s worth it. Make sure to clean the spring when you’re done)
  • Racking cane (I prefer one with an auto siphon but it isn’t strictly necessary)
  • About 50 refillable 12 oz bottles (or fewer large bottles)
  • Caps and capper (flip top bottles)
  • Hydrometer
  • Star San (You can also use Iodophor or bleach, but Star San is a godsend in my opinion)

You should be able to easily find a kit with all of this. If the kit doesn’t come with Star San or Idopher, buy some. OneStep usually comes with the kits, but it is not a good sanitizer despite it’s claims. It does clean well, though.

A wort chiller isn’t necessary, but it is very useful. The longer your wort sits at higher temperatures, the greater the chance it will become infected. The flavor will also be affected as you won’t get as good of a cold break. If you don’t get a chiller then you should at least cool the wort in an ice bath immediately.

(It’s too bad you live so far from Virginia… I’ve been considering getting out brewing and I have a lot of great equipment to sell. It would be a lot more than $200 for my set up, though.:))

  1. Disregarding the cost of initial investment, do you save money over the long run by brewing your own beer?
    — A. Disregarding the initial investment? Most definitely. Buying in bulk can get ingredient costs very low to the point where you are paying much less than a dollar a bottle. If you don’t disregard the cost of the equipment then it is a bit harder, but certainly possible if you are price conscious and don’t need to have the latest and greatest gadget as soon as it comes out. And if you don’t keg as that is quite pricey. Personally, I have saved money by homebrewing. Not a lot, but I am still in the black.

  2. Assuming you’re a complete novice with no knowledge of the process beyond what’s in the instruction book, can you still make a decent brew with off-the-shelf ingredients?
    — A. Yep. Just make sure you keep everything clean and sanitized. If you even think it might not be sanitary, sanitize it. Also note that you can’t sanitize dirty equipment so make sure it is clean. I’d also suggest finding a local homebrew club and going to some meetings. If there’s anything homebrewers like to talk about, it’s brewing. Everyone there will want to help you out.

  3. How much space does a small operation take up?
    — A. Depends on how much equipment you have. If you just want to do extract kits and don’t keep any ingredients on hand then you could likely store everything in a kitchen cabinet (except maybe the brew kettle unless you did partial boils and used a smaller kettle). I have quite a lot of large equipment for doing all grain batches as well as about a hundred pounds of grain on hand and several hundred bottles and my stuff takes up about as much space as a large sofa. (It would be less if I stacked the shelves, but some of that stuff is heavy and I don’t want it above me)

  4. If you have the operation in your garage, and the garage door is open on a nice day, and the cops drive by, are they likely to mistake your operation for a meth lab?
    — A. The cops more than likely won’t but I have heard stories of nosy neighbors calling the police when they see a homebrewer’s equipment. It’s perfectly legal to homebrew (no distilling) so in a worse case scenario you get to teach a cop about making beer and your nosy neighbors may get an earful.

I would go the other way with this. I prefer the dry yeast. Much cheaper, starts fermentation sooner and the results are nearly as consistent as the liquid yeast. I use only dry now.

Agree with you on Midwest, however. I think that is where I got my original equipment kit from and the first few kits. Good place.

I’ve got 2 “local” places, but unfortunately, one absolutely sucks (won’t go near it ever again) and the other is merely “not very good”, so I stick to the 'Net.

Moving from IMHO to Cafe Society.

FWIW, the advice to ditch the dry yeast and use the liquid is more of a holdover from before about 10 years ago. At some point, the yeast manufacturers came out with a series of VERY good dried yeast varieties, including lager yeasts. Even Weihenstephan 34/70 comes in dry form now, as well as the standard US ale yeast, a classic British Ale yeast (Fuller’s, I think), a Belgian ale yeast, and a Bavarian Weizen yeast.

Combine that with the fact that dry yeast has much higher cell counts than liquid (a single sachet is more or less equal to a half-gallon starter), and you can see why a good dry yeast has serious advantages.

The one thing that liquid yeasts still provide is variety; there are dozens of varieties out there, and if you really want to see what the difference is between 34/70 and the Budweiser yeast (Wyeast 2007), then you can get both in liquid form easily.

I like Midwest because they are just over in Minnesota (I’m in South Dakota) and I get the stuff pretty quickly.

There is a homebrew/confectionery store in a town about 35 miles from my town (Yes, that’s ‘local’ :slight_smile: ) that is really good. The people running it are very nice and the guy is very knowledgeable about homebrewing. There’s a new one that opened up in another city that is strictly homebrewing and they didn’t seem to know anything. For example, the guy was surprised that my recipe needed 6 pounds of DME and they didn’t even carry the 3 pound bags, only had the 1 pounders. You and I both know that’s a pretty typical amount of DME to use. The other place that sells supplies/ingredients in that city has a bigger variety, but it’s in a convenience store so I don’t know if the staff is very knowledgeable as I’ve never really asked them anything.

I always found that starting the yeast the night before (pitch the yeast into a lukewarm bottle half filled with a mixture of water and some kind of fermentable (I often use honey) and an airlock helps immensely. You’ll know in the morning if it’s fermenting and, while I’ve never not had it fermenting, you still have time to pitch a second batch. Then, when your wort is cooled, you’ll pitch yeast that is going gangbusters and wild yeasties never get a chance to start.

It’s not so much a matter of pitching vigorous yeast, although that’s an important consideration.

The real reason you pitch a huge starter or a package or two of dried yeast is cell count. The more you pitch, the faster fermentation you get, the less they have to reproduce, and the less they create weird off flavors.

This is especially true when pitching cool as you do for lagers- you need twice as many cells.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_pitchrates.cfm
http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

Never pitch more than one packet of dried yeast unless it is very high OG wort or the yeast is old. They already overestimated how much yeast you’ll need in a packet by a huge margin and you can create off flavors by over pitching as well as under pitching. If the wort ferments too fast the yeast will go dormant for lack of food and flocculate out too quickly so that you end up with all kinds of yeast by product that they never had a chance to clean up, along with a higher chance for autolysis.

The best way to pitch yeast is to simply rehydrate your dry yeast (boil and cool water, put in the yeast and let it sit for a bit, no need for sugars) and pitch that slurry or to build up a healthy starter from liquid yeast and pitch it at high krausen. You could also split a packet of dry yeast and then build up a starter from that if you really wanted to, but don’t try to build a starter from an entire packet or you will severely over pitch.

Also note that if you do build up a starter you shouldn’t use regular sugar or honey or the like as they have completely different sugars than malt. A starter should be built using DME/LME or canned wort from a previous batch so that the yeast can get used to the environment that they will be in.

I was under the impression that you shouldn’t make a starter from dry yeast, as the dry yeast has been dried at the optimum conditions to lock in nutrients for the yeast. If you make a starter with dry yeast, they consume the nutrients too soon. Dry yeast should only be rehydrated or pitched dry with rehydrating preferred.

Why is there a higher risk for autolysis? Maybe if you’re pitching onto a yeast cake from a previous batch this would be a concern, but shouldn’t be for a fresh culture.

Most of this quoted portion doesn’t make sense to me. You’ll reach a point where the yeast either run out of sugar or die due to ethanol toxicity whether you pitch optimally or overpitch. I can’t see having too much yeast causing any off flavors, in fact it would probably be the opposite, less ester production during the growth phase would suppress yeast flavor contribution.

I would say the reason not to overpitch is that it’s expensive and/or a hassle to throw more yeast than are necessary.

I cultured yeast for 5 years for a regional craft brewery and trained with brewing research at one of the “Big Three”, and I don’t remember any concerns about overpitching. Maybe there has been new research since those days, I’d love to see it.

Based on some back-of-the-napkin math, the Mr. Malty rates are pretty close to the Wyeast (one of the big liquid yeast vendors) rates- Mr. Malty’s formula isn’t a stair-step function, so around 1.048 it’s kind of funky, but seems to be pretty accurate.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_pitchrates.cfm

What I do with my dry yeast is to take out two cups after I’ve steeped the grains and added the extract, just before it starts to boil, and stick it in the fridge to cool. I boil for 45 minutes, then pull out the measuring cup and dump the dry yeast in. By the end of the boil, about 15 minutes later, its ready to go. I consistently get vigorous out-gassing within 12-24 hours.

Gotta admit, after reading all of the other posters contributions about yeast, I don’t know nearly as much as you all! But what I’m doin’ is workin’ for me! :smiley: And I’m a cheap-skate, so that’s the real reason I use dry. :wink:

Can any of you knowledgeable brewers tell me how one cultures a yeast from a pint you bought in the alehouse? And is this something that has any merit for the homebrewer?

I’m doing a Timothy Taylor Landlord for the next brew - legendary ale. I’ll prob use dried Nottingham yeast as that’s a pretty popular and available ale yeast here in the UK. If I go round the corner for a few pints of TTL in the pub, could I save the dregs in a tupperware box and somehow grow the exact strain of yeast from that sample?

Culturing yeast from commercial beers can be tricky, especially because some brewers apparently condition their beers with yeasts other than those used in fermentation. It is definitely possible, though, I’ve cultured a few.

I assume Timothy Taylor Landlord is a real ale? If so, I’d swirl it around and pour some into a sterilized glass jar before drinking it. Pour it into a starter solution when you get home and see what you get, it’s fun no matter what.

You might want to contact the brewery and make sure they’re not using Nottingham first, though. :smiley: (I love Nottingham yeast, by the way)

Ty August, I can give it a try.
Apparently TTL uses Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire, which is also available here but it’s a bit more expensive.