Wether you agree with the title of this thread or not, try to persuade me (preferably from a christian standpoint) that the statement is true.
I know that it is a christian belief that all sins are pretty much equal, but that is not what i want to find out.
I just want you to “sell” me the notion that some sins are worse than others.
Thanks for your help
That’s not why I learned in Sunday school. Sure God would forgive anything, but murder was definitely worse than… say… pride or coveting that sweet, sweet ox.
In the Mosaic Law there were different penalties for various sins, ranging from paying back a monetary value to death. In the NT, there are sins that can be forgiven, and then there’s grieving the Holy Spirit which can’t. What grieving the Spirit actualy means is open to some debate.
I take it that you believe that any sin is as bad as any other. I realize that there are a handfull of Christians and other religious people who might argue that any sin removes you from God, therefore murder is as bad as cussing, but I don’t think many. It seems to me that the obvious position is that some sins are worse than others.
I don’t mean to hijack your OP so soon, but perhaps you can tell us why you think they are all the same.
Sorry, not grieving, but blaspheming the Spirit.
“But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.”
Same ymmv warning still applies.
Count me as another one that hadn’t heard all sins were equal. I remember something from Sunday school about venal and mortal sins–but I was too slothful and decided to daydream/sleep rather than pay attention.
Actually, according to Jesus:
You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Mt 5:21-22
And later on in that same chapter, Jesus says this about adultery:
You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart
Mt 5:27-28
So biblically, Jesus equates murder with hatred, and adultery with lust, thereby making all sins of marginally equal gravity.
What all the different churches teach, I won’t cover, since others of the various faiths will no doubt post. But look at what else I found in the NT concerning what many consider sins:
“But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
Again, ymmv, as I am not espousing any church doctrine or individual belief, merely posting what is in the Bible.
I usually hear this claim by Protestants who are very “love the sinner, hate the sin” about homosexuality, sort of saying that we all sin, so homosexuals are no worse than any other people.
I’ve talked to many Christians who try to justify why homosexuality is so evil, and they often bring up an analogy about murder. Now this is a pretty darn offensive analogy, but the point is that homosexuals, like all human beings, are sinners, and therefore we’re all as bad as murderers. Not that this makes it all that much better, but I like to think of it as being somewhat equal-minded.
For Christians who focus on the afterlife and eternal salvation, this sort of theology makes sense, since all sins have the same consequence: Hell. On the flip side, all sins can be “washed away” with the same remedy: belief in Christ. Thus, all sins, be it murder or little white lies or “coveting that sweet, sweet ox” (great phrase Domokun, I’m going to use that whenever I can now) are equal in God’s eyes.
Indeed, which is to say that all unrepentant sinners, wether murderers or liars, have merited themselves an eternity in Hell.
Belief in Christ is not what gets you saved. The bible says that it is by grace you have been saved; through faith. It is not of works, lest any man should boast.
To be truly saved, you must not only confess your sins, but repent of them also.
Do you live near a Roman Catholic church? If so, go in and ask this of a priest. While I consider myself an agnostic, I was baptised Roman Catholic. Unless RCC doctrine has changed since I learned it, I could go to a RCC priest and confess all past sins and be given penance. If I complied with this, so long as I didn’t commit a mortal sin before I died, I would be guaranteed salvation. If I commited a few venial sins before I died, I still eventually end up in heaven. As for whether some sins are worse than others per RCC doctrine, print out this post and show it to a RCC priest. I would expect that at least as he interpreted Christian doctrine, he’d agree.
We discuss this topic in Sunday school frequently. If your definition of sin is that which separates you from God, then you can make the case that they are all the same.
How do you define “worse”? To us mere mortals, it seems fairly straightforward. From God’s perspective, I’m not so sure.
KRM, Domokun made a good example in his post, #2, saying
I’ve always been taught, and thought, this way regarding sin:
Sin is always sin. So on the one hand, the man who cuss’s or lies is going to get the same death and separation from God as the man who slays his brother.
But it’s the worldly consequences that differentiate from sin to sin, and what is deemed “appropriate” in reaction to those sins.
For instance, if I murder, in the US we usually condemn you to a life of imprisonment and isolation. Occasionally the law will require your death. You get this because you’ve not only sinned against God, persay, but also the law, and other people on this earth. The consequences are higher because you’ve aligned yourself against more entities. You’ve caused damage between yourself, God, and others, so it makes sense that others get involved.
Homosexuality, however, is not the same situation. People spend a lot of time hurdling insults, or attacking the lifestyle, and yet 99.9% of the time, the lifestyle has nothing to do with other people. So why are we sticking our noses in it? If you look at it as murder, who are they murdering? You? Certainly not.
So yeah, the Bible will tell you that by your works and your own righteousness you’re as a condemned to die as the next guy, even if he makes you look like a saint. Only by accepting Christ’s salvation, etc., do you get in. Sticking to his laws and following him closely gives you your rewards in Heaven. But that’s about it. By no merit of your own are you regarded “Righteous” or clean. Even if you aren’t the guy who shot an entirely family down.
From a human perspective, one is clearly “worse” than the other. But if God’s forgiveness and punishment is the same, is it really worse from His perspective? If we are talking about an omnipotent God, I don’t think forgiving one sin would be “harder” than any other.
If we posit that God has the opinion that the punishment should fit the crime, then all crime is the same because it all receives the same punishment.
Well, I was oversimplifying, but yes, I am well aware of the importance of repentance. I’m not sure why you included that Ephesians quote though, since that particular passage does not mention repentence at all, but salvation through faith, which is pretty much what I said.
But yes, repentance is also important for salvation. Which is exactly the issue I bring up with many “love the sinner, hate the sin” Christians- many of them will admit that homosexuality is not a choice (although few will agree that it’s natural or biological), but this brings up many sticky issues with how a homosexual can repent of something he has no choice over and cannot alter. Then again, there are those who claim, completely going against reason, that homosexuality is a chosen “lifestyle” and/or that it can be “changed” through, as with any sin, faith in Christ.
Well, I included the Ephesians reference because of the phrase “through faith”. I can see a chair over against the wall, but if i don’t have faith that it will hold me up, i won’t sit in it.
You can believe in Jesus, but that won’t get you to heaven. Faith in Jesus will.
I’m sorry, but I don’t agree. Jesus didn’t say that these sins were of equal severity. For example, he said that lust is a covert form of adultery, but he did not say that it was just as bad as overt adultery.
Moreover, even if he did, his statements would merely have meant that these particular sins were equal. It still wouldn’t have meant that all sins are of equal severity.
Well, Yahweh did ordain more severe punishments under the Mosaic Law for certain sins than for others. This alone suggests that not all sin is of equal severity.