Or maybe, for a man, unless a woman is incredibly skinny or just plain overweight (as in size 20) it just doesn’t matter.
Your argument is akin to:
(1) That woman has blue eyes, and she’s beautiful.
(2) I have brown/green eyes.
(3) Thus I’m not beautiful.
pukey
Sorry for my caustic tone, but I have this kind of argument all the time with my SO, and it really pisses me off at times that she doesn’t believe me and seems to think i’m just humouring her!
gee, pukey, thanks a lot.
Speaking as a size 20 woman (and one who is NEVER going to be any smaller thanks to genetics) this is not a good arguement. Women over size 20 can be quite good looking, as well.
That’s like me saying, “All guys are good looking, as long as they have hair.” (FTR, I can think of at least four sexy balding guys off the top of my head, two of whom are younger than I am.)
And you wonder that some of us women think that all men are hung up on size. :rolleyes:
Anyone who’d like to look at the link in my .sig can see exactly what I look like. Feel free to comment. You probably won’t say anything I haven’t heard before.
Particularly from my mother, (enculturation, again), who insisted when I developed breasts and hips at 10(!) that I was “getting fat” when all I was really doing was maturing. Also heard similar comments from classmates, but mostly mom. And the media [small](What? I’m short, I’m heavier than average…my dad’s always been polite about it, saying I was a “big girl” but then again it’s his genetics that I’m struggling with.)[/small] but only after I’d had the message drilled in by family.
You know, perhaps its just me, but I have no idea what the hell women’s sizes amount to in guy terms, or even in arbitrary terms.
I mean, size zero? One of my cousins is a size zero. I knew she was small, but one time I went to a store just to see what size zero was all about. My thoughts? People WANT to look like this? (incidentally she’s tiny all the way around, and eats well).
stoid I find the comments you made disturbing.
:eek: What–shall we say-- IDIOTS. Can someone sue them for false advertising???
I have never in my life wanted to be thinner. Ever. What I wanted was to be about 3" shorter, and only so that I could find someone reasonably compatible.
I’m 6’ tall and 185 pounds (38-26-38 for you folks who can’t imagine what that weight looks like). One of the traits I find highly attractive in a partner is that they be shorter than me, as in quite a bit shorter. Unfortunately, very few men have the cojones to accept a partner taller than them, even if they think she’s attractive in other ways.
I don’t know why that is. I just wish that a few guys would get over it, so I’d have someone to date.
Corr
OK, it is obvious that you women have no idea what men are really all about.
First off, most men find most women attractive. Meaning, you’d have to be several standard deviations from the mean for your average man to find you repulsive. Sure men like pretty girls, but men also have pretty low standards.
Second, the women depicted in fashion magazines have no relation to what most men actually like. Face facts, all these clothing designers and photographers are either women or gay. They aren’t selecting their models to appeal to men. If you want to see what men really like, try looking at a couple of cheap porno magazines. What men really like is healthy, with big tits and a nice ass. Preferably naked and horny.
Third, you women who complained that males called you fat? Y’know, most men couldn’t care less about your weight. The only reason they called you fat was because they know that women hate being called fat. If women hated being called short then that is what they’d yell. When insulting someone you don’t point out the things you hate about your victim, but what you imagine will hurt them the most.
Fourth, do men only claim to like larger women, but secretly they want smaller women? Frankly, we’re not that smart. Women are always looking for the hidden meaning behind what men say, but for the most part we are all surface no depth.
As a man, I completely disavow any responsiblity for women’s poor body image. Nope, you women do it all to yourselves. Now excuse me while I go back to my beloved porn collection…
Exactly! That’s why, if I expect to have a hot-looking BF, I better “match.” A guy’s looks matter a lot to me, because my own looks matter a lot to me. I work hard on my looks. It’s practically a hobby. (Some might tell me I need to get out more…!)
I like getting attention because I’m attractive, which I don’t think is unusual. I was chubby once and didn’t like the way I felt or looked. I did something about it. Speaking for myself, I am much happier now. (Is there a downside? Of course… I can’t eat a lot of tasty stuff!)
Yeah, I’m heavily invested in the media image, but I can work with that.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lemur866 *
**OK, it is obvious that you women have no idea what men are really all about.
First off, most men find most women attractive. Meaning, you’d have to be several standard deviations from the mean for your average man to find you repulsive. Sure men like pretty girls, but men also have pretty low standards. **
Lemur, you’re missing the point. In fact, having scanned this entire thread, it seems to me that many of the men in this thread are.
This has very little, if anything, to do with how we (meaning men) feel about women’s bodies; it isn’t about us. (It’s “about us” far less frequently than our egos think it is.) It’s about how women feel about themselves.
Having said that, I also have to own up to the fact that i didn’t come to this conclusion on my own: the truth is, a woman pointed it out to me, and she’s right.
Well, judging from the “conversations” I’ve had on this topic with Mrs. Bubba, that’s the conclusion I’ve drawn. Usually it’s something like
“HOW can you find me attractive???”
“Honey, I do…<excessive sweetness deleted>”
“But there’s too much of this, and that sags too much, and there’s not enough of the other…”
It’s the eye of the beholder, and her eye is apparently much more critical than mine. I’d guess the standards in advertising and TV are probably not set due to mens reactions, its due to womens reactions. As has been pointed out a couple of times, we’re really not that picky. According to me, and a few others here, women are attractive, by default. There may be some qualities that reduce the overall attractiveness, but just the fact that you’re female makes you attractive.
I think the women have a more critical eye when it comes to judging the models. Stoid brought up the fact that bigger models were not selling clothes in advertisements for sized 14-28, but who was looking at those advertisements? Seems like it’s women doing it to themselves.
Well… I’m not nuts about the implications of the way you rephrased my point. Saying “it’s women doing it to themselves” has an awful smell of, “Listen, don’t blame us, dammit, this is YOUR problem.” Which seems to be the way too many debates between men and women on personal issues end up, which is not a great help to coexistence.
You have missed the point…and besides, I think you are, well, not completely right. Most men - maybe. But that hasn’t been my experience.
I’ve been fortunate to have been “one of the guys” with some frequency, and I’ve heard guys talk about each other’s girlfriends (and their own).
“I can’t believe Jim keeps dating Sherri. What a cow! Must give good head.”
“Beth has joined the ‘incredible expanding girlfriends club’” - this from a point in time when my male friends would start dating someone pretty attractive, and she’d gain 20 pounds in 3 months.
“Gretchen should get a clue and leave me alone. I’m not going to date her - she looks like a car wreck. Yeah, I slept with her, but I was drunk.”
Names have been changed to protect the innocent. But the quotes are, to the best of my memory, word for word. Are my male friends higher on the jerk scale than the average guy? - maybe. And they have gotten much better as they gotten out of the teens and early twenties. And I will say that all the men quoted have dated plenty of women who were not perfect size sixes - even perfect size tens or twelves.
Women can be quite bitchy in describing each others physical flaws. Men can, too. I doubt there is a woman here who hasn’t heard similar comments coming from men she knows.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by jarbabyj *
**
Okay, I’ll bite.
I like skinny, tight tummied, slim waisted women who wear a size four. Not Pamela Anderson, mind you, but someone closer to my fiance.
Happy?
Ok, but that’s not I what I wanted to say. Let’s try it again:
I rarely see men looking these magazines and saying things like “Wow, she’s hot. Why can’t you be that hot?”, and then it’s mostly on Springer and the like. But I frequently see women looking in magazines and saying things like “Oooh, I hate her.” “She’s so skinny.”, and also the insulting ones like “She’s too fat.” or “Her haircut makes her look ugly.”
The point I was trying to make is that, in my experience, women are far more critical of themselves and other women than men.
um, let’s make that, fiancee.
Sing it Beezle. Now, if only advertising aimed at women were actually run almost entirely by women we’d have a rock solid case! But, alas, I do not know if this is true. Anyone have gender stats on the advertising field? Hell, even anecdotal evidence will suit me.
My hypothesis: women are more sensative than men. Advertisers, being partially human, know this. They pray on something all humans have: self awareness. This now-heightened sensitivity to personal appearence far outweighs evidence to the contrary and drives home one point, over and over again, like a drum beating in a distant forest, pounding one point home: people only like you if you’re perfect. People only like you if your perfect. The fnord can’t hurt you if you don’t look at it…
OK, the last line was a bit of whimsy, but really. If women are, generally, more sensative than men then given equal treatment of imposing a “should-be” image, women will be affected by it more. I don’t know if it’s true, but hey. Thought I’d toss it out.
I’m a male who’s attempting with paramount efforts to achieve the ideal male body. This has in fact all derived from the media, being a male I obviously don’t buy the magazines. But on TV I do see desirable bodies (I’m gay) that I myself want. I witness them on TV even on “standard” people shows, so I have this cement belief that it’s possible to acquire these muscular bodies.
I have been working out, dancing (I’m going ANY route possible), excercising, jogging and the whole shebang. I am pleased with the results, but I know I can go further. It’s just not enough, I really have to start working on my abs…they aren’t that hard yet.
I’m not entirely secure with my face but no huge alterations could be made to that, so I’m working on something I can be secure and confident about and that’s my body. I do these excercises regular…I don’t diet (I’m somewhat beginning to) but it’ll be the route I’m going within the next month if I don’t build up more.
The media is reprehesible for this, remember the beautiful image of male and females 20 years ago? Certainly not rock hard abs, smooth stomach, perfect breasts, nice curves, etc. Although, I’m keeping up with the jonses…and I feel this’ll be the only way to rid of my insecurities.
Now THAT, I’ll buy.
Actually, I find Pam Anerson, Carmen Electra, and that general type moderately repulsive. I like real women. Yeah, I know… Define “real”. Well, I can’t define it clearly, but I know it when I see it.
I’d run with that… It’s actually a pretty good place to be, IMO.
Damn! That took guts.
It’s called ambition and competition. Apparently your desire exceeds your reach. That’s always going to cause discontent. Learn to recognize it, and chanel it into more productive avenues, such as… "If I’m better at my job, I’ll gain promotion and power, and men will desire me for my success, women will weep in despair of ever being as good as me… " It’s still a fairly ugly motivation, but it’s honest, and if you point your desire in a direction you can achieve, you may find that the desire to make women jealous and men lust after your becomes less important when your have other basis for your self image.
That’s what worked for Mrs. Tranq. She was in a personal hell until she found a job where her considerable skills are fully used and appreciated. Interesting to note, that she had zip-point-squat success with changing her body shape until after she found a good job… Your “Bears Asshole” would have always gotten short shrift from her, but now, rather than bouncing him down the stairs on his head, she’s more likely to laugh, wiggle her (very nice) behind, and keep on doing whatever it was she was doing.
Damn, Corrvin, where were you when I was single? I know, I know… I’m too tall for your tastes, being exactly six-foot, but damn… [sub]yummy…[/sub]
Oh, and FWIW, to all the women reading this, something my one of my numerous sisters does: She likes to wear sexy underwear under her daily clothes, so when someone is mean to her, she can say (in her mind) “You wouldn’t treat me like that if you knew what I was wearing…”. A nice little piece of mental revenge. [sub]Hoping this gets more women into sexy underwear…[/sub]
Check out The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde for a good story on exactly that issue.
I like skinny, tight tummied, slim waisted women who look like Pam Anderson and wear a size four. Regardless of personal ideals I doubt there is a guy on this board who would kick her out of bed (other considerations aside such as already being married or gay or 90 with a heart condition). It’s been said before in this thread but it bears repeating since it seems to keep coming up.
So what?
Most men would gladly screw most women. Yes…I said ‘screw’ because what men want to sleep with and what men want to spend the rest of their lives with are two wholly different things. We want to screw most anything with a pulse (what was the old joke…When George enters the room the fish stop swimming?). We get a helluva lot pickier when it comes to a lifemate and it is here that men will actually consider the rest of the person (intelligence, personality, etc.).
It is this dichotomy that usually sells guys short because we can think past our dicks if we want to. I may be happy to have sex with Shannon Dougherty but if what I’ve heard is true (that she is a Class A pain-in-the-ass) I certainly wouldn’t want to live with her.
Pam Anderson being pretty has NOTHING (ZERO, ZILCH, NADA) to do with anyone else’s beauty. That a husband or S.O. finds Pam Anderson screwable has NO bearing on how he feels about you.
If you (women) still can’t see this take the reverse. How should your husband feel when you gush about Brad Pitt (or whatever your hunk d’jour is)?
How to Fix the Media Bombardment Problem:
I heard a report on NPR a week or two ago about a program (in Canada I think) where they were trying to counter exactly this lack of thinking. Students would view advertisements in class and then pick them apart. They’d be shown how advertisers fudge the truth for their own ends. They’d be shown how advertisers would try to manipulate their thinking and tap into (or create) insecurities so you’d buy their product. In short, the class taught the students to view media images with a critical eye.
Unfortunately this was only a summer class. To be really effective I’d think a class like this should be taken at least one quarter every year for the better part of a students learning career (say 5[sup]th[/sup] grade thru 12[sup]th[/sup]).
Is such a thing important enough to wedge into a school curriculum and possibly displace time for learning other things (i.e. math)? I think so. You could make it a part of English class to learn how to view messages (any messages) critically…always a useful skill.
Will this alone solve the issues at hand? Probably not but I imagine it would be an excellent start. Once you had a large enough population using their heads advertisers might find that they have to give their messages a bit more substance and leave the emotional hijacking in the dust bin.
Dude, I was thinking the same thing, but I didn’t feel that this was really a thread to flirt in. Since we’ve done that…
jar, if that pic of you on the people pages is even close you are cute as hell. Even though you are married, you’ve got a fan over here, anyway. FWIW. 
[jay]I LOVE WOMEN[/jay]
I’m not in agreement with an imperative issue you all seem to bring up. We’re all discussing TV, magazine ads, media and what not.
But how about those guys or girls you see at school/colledge, work…essentially someone you see on a daily basis who’s extremely attractive? I’m going to put more emphasis on males though because they don’t need consmetics and many tools to be attractive. You see they’re attractive by default.
And when I look at myself, I have to work damn hard for it. Sometimes it’s 2 hour preparations (I’m male) just to get that perfect secure look. And in no way am I perfect, I utilize a great deal of things to go to my extreme potential.
To be honest, I vehemently get jealous at those guys/girls who don’t work out, put on make up go outside and have millions of others stare at them in awe.
My friend rated me a 7 on appearance. Which is intensely high for me in my opinion and she claimed she wasn’t being generous.
How am I going to get over my friends? They’re all good-looking and have me passionately envious. I must be somewhat good-looking to hang out with all these people…but I don’t see it. Or much. It hurts to deal with the fact that they’ll gain love effortlessly compared to me, could get someone of “flawless” standard and will always have things going easier for them. And as unconfident as I am with myself I will settle no less than an 10 - 8.
I think this is a consequentail issue that hasn’t been discussed and may be a fraction (a big part of my) insecurities.
And here is why we don’t believe you when you say you don’t care…name those magic measurements and Corrvin gets flirted with. Yeah, you might appreciate (or be willing to sleep with, or even marry) someone who is 34-38-42, but the positive feedback (and wolf whistles) go to the perfect bod.