I’ve told the story on this board before, but I play poker with whisky snobs. So I bought a distinctive bottle, made my own label (called it Finnerty’s, a fictional scotch Tom Selleck serves on Blue Bloods), and filled it from a $20 bottle. And snuck it onto the snack table…
Well, our local übersnob launched into a long story of how he’d just gotten back from an exclusive tour of high-end distilleries, as he was filling his personal Glencairn glass with “Finnerty’s”. I thought “Damn, the jig’s up now…”
Nope. He swirled, he sniffed, he sipped, he smacked his lips… and proclaimed it “More complex than anything I had on that tour” and schooled us that it was obviously a $200 bottle.
I think it’s pretty phenomenal. Now, not worth $2k per 750ml that you’d spend on the secondary market, but what is?
I remember being a poor college student that splurged on a pour of it, and loved it. I then ran into a shelf full of it at the local liquor store, but there was no way I was going to spend $80, even if it is 20 years old! Coulda stored some for 5 years and had a down payment on a house.
The best bourbon being made is out of A Smith Bowman in Virginia in my opinion. I had an 18 year old about 6 months ago that was simply amazing. Of course my buddy does their marketing so I didn’t have to pay to share a bottle 'cause i wouldn’t pay that kind of money.
My daily drinker is the 6 year old bonded bourbon out of AD Laws.
Everyone is correct about sourcing and the family trees so I don’t have a lot to add there. Except that the old Bookers/Bakers/Basil Hayden distillery just got moved to the University of Kentucky and will get to generate a bunch of research which should be interesting.
I first had Pappy in ~2008, before it was super hyped, so that might been beneficial for my tasting. I haven’t had it in a while either, so it’s possible that my palate’s changed and I won’t be as enthusiastic anymore. I have a bottle of the 15 in the other room, but haven’t had the occasion to crack it open.
Oredigger, I think Bowman is…fine. However, I did the tour and as soon as arriving it had the most delicious smell permeating the entire area. It was divine.
I think Whistlepig has multiple products- only that 12 yr World one started out as MGP 95% rye.
I just want to mention that I’m not bashing the quality of the products- I’ve had Bulleit and Dickel Rye, and both are excellent rye whiskies.
What I have issue with is the rebranding. The implication is that Dickel Rye is produced in the same distillery by the same people as Dickel Tennessee whiskey, but that’s not necessarily true, which seems a bit misleading.
To use an analogy… if some kind of artisanal food producer made a big deal about their artisanal sausage, etc… and then you came to find out that they were using regular old Wal-Mart quality Tyson pork as their starting point, and they just seasoned it, cured it and smoked it, you might feel a bit ripped off.
This isn’t limited to whiskies, FWIW. “Artisanal” vodka is often ethanol sourced from Archer Daniels Midland, and then redistilled and filtered in some sort of attempt to differentiate it from all the other variants on alcohol and water that make up the US vodka market. To me that’s actually worse, in that with whiskey, the aging, blending and dilution is a HUGE part of what gives character to the whiskey. But legally speaking, vodka’s only alcohol and water in the US, so all these clowns are doing is potentially knocking some rough edges off the ADM ethanol and rebottling it and upcharging it dramatically.
I’m not against it per-se, but I do think there should be labeling requirements that identify the source distillate if they’re not producing it in-house. I mean, I might prefer to support the true vodka distiller who actually ferments and distills their own product, rather than someone who just redistills something made in a giant Midwestern factory. Same for rye whiskey. And I don’t doubt that there are brands of bourbon and rum that are similar.
I have to admit I’m a bit conflicted about gin though; the skill in gin is more in the redistillation and choice of the botanical blend, rather than in the distillate itself, so I don’t have the same issue with gin producers buying base spirit.
Really fascinating information about the family trees, etc. Would it actually be possible for me to buy a cheap-ish bourbon, put it into a nice cask and wait for a few years to improve its flavour? I’d have the patience, as I rarely touch the stuff…
Better to buy the raw dog and age that, as it hasn’t been blended and reduced in proof. Make sure you store the barrel in an unairconditioned garage, where the ebb and flow of the seasons can work its magic on the liquid.
I don’t think any amount of additional aging can save something like 10 High or Ancient Age.
My local liquor store has it for $16 a 375mL (what we sometimes call a “pint” in the US, even though it’s well short of a pint.) At 125 proof, that should be just right for aging.
Pappy reminds me that back in the 70s Coors was not sold in the East so almost everyone talked about how great it was. Then when it was sold here most people said what is the big deal?
Yeah, and for a long time, Pappy just sat on the shelf gathering dust 'cause no one gave a shit about bourbon or rye. I used to regularly buy the Van Winkle Family Reserve rye, which back in the day was outstandingly excellent and a good value too. I assumed the local liquor store was regularly getting it restocked, but eventually one of the guys that worked there mentioned that I had bought the whole case one bottle at a time, no one else ever grabbed that. Same story for Pappy 15 and 20, except I never bought much 'cause I don’t like wheated bourbon very much.
Anyway, the whole mystique that developed was because the rye was a leftover lot of Barton and Cream of Kentucky whiskey that got blended and tanked, then bottled in small amounts once a year. The Pappy was the same deal, but leftover Stitzel Weller bourbon from right before they closed that Julian hoarded because it was unusually good. So by the time the buzz hit the highest pitch, the stock that made the name was all gone. It’s all Buffalo Trace now, good stuff, but hardly what it was.
I’m pretty sure that proper aging takes place at a lot higher proof than 80- IIRC bourbon is aged at 125 proof, which gives some cushion for the “angels’ share” to evaporate out of the barrels. (about 2% of the alcohol is lost every year to the atmosphere by aging barrels of booze) It’s enough that distilleries and rickhouses (and entire communities) are plagued with a specific species of fungus that metabolizes ethanol out of the air, and that makes walls and everything else look dirty with black stains.
I’d think if you used 80 proof bottled whiskey, you’d end up with something considerably less alcoholic than you’d want.
“Raw dog” is a new one to me – I’ve always known it as “white dog.” But, yeah, it should be around 125 proof, but check the label. Maker’s Mark sold/sells a white dog version of their whiskey at their gift shop, but that one’s 90 proof.