It occurred to me while I was out gassing up the car (first fill-up since the middle of March!) that what bump was referencing was my last comment about 10 High and Ancient Age. That shit will never get any better no matter what you do.
I’ve heard “raw dog,” “white dog,” “white whiskey” and several other terms for unaged corn whiskey. It’s basically shine with professional roots no matter what you call it. I’ve had real shine - the stuff you can buy at the liquor store is a pale imitation.
White dog is just unaged whiskey. It’s ghastly stuff- if you’ve had grappa, white dog is a lot like that, with all the kerosene and rubbing alcohol notes, only with a faint whiskey tinge, rather than a faint grape tinge.
I once went to a whiskey tasting seminar put on by Heaven Hill and Glenmorangie at “Tales of the Cocktail” (2009, I believe), and it was fascinating. They had stuff like the same whiskey unaged, and then aged for various time periods- you could tell how the aging affected the flavor. They had stuff like the same Scotch whisky aged in different sorts of barrels, including one particularly weird one aged in a new charred oak barrel. (kind of like an all-malt Bourbon more than a Scotch- it was something I’d consider buying).
Anyway, they had Scotch and Bourbon white dog, and both were awful. Just a few years aging, and they were drinkable.
I’m seriously looking into this as The Laziest Hobby Ever. Any recommendations on what I should age, for how long, and a source for a small barrel? (Ooh, should I burn the insides? That’d be fun!)
Tons, I don’t have a specific one to recommend but there’s a liter for $38 on Amazon. Otherwise you can also use oak chips in a non-reactive container.
Oh, where to get started on maturation. Some of the biggest stuff has already been covered.
Barrel entry proof is a big topic in the industry. Up until 1962 the maximum barrel entry proof was 110 and then it was raised to the current 125. The primary reason for this was it allowed for bourbon to be made cheaper. There is some believe that this compromised the flavor and many historical whiskeys were aged at much lower proofs almost to the point there were at drinking proof in the barrel. This allowed for whiskey to be drinkable from the barrel with little dilution. Now smaller distillers are experimenting with minimum barrel proofs though those on the lowest end of the spectrum are typically blended to make more complex products. An example of this is the breather barrels taken from the brandy industry where the hearts are split such that one barrel is filled at ~80 proof and the other is filled at 120 proof. Once they are fully mature the barrels are blended to create the bottle proof spirit without some of the insipidness that comes from using r/o water for dilution. Years ago I found a table about what spirit components are up taken by the spirit based on proof. The only part I remember is that vanillin uptake the most at just over 125 proof. I’ve been trying to find the graph but haven’t found it. I may end up trying to recreate it as part of my research someday.
Other key parts of maturation are oxidation and evaporation. These parts are what is commonly missing is spirits aged in glass bottles with lids and oak chips like mason jars and carboys. Evaporation allows for the most volatile parts of the spirit to leave the final product. There have been several studies that show that up to 80% of the alcohol evaporated in the first year of maturation is methanol and that if too tight of a head cut is taken that the evaporation of ethanol increases. Proof does not always decrease in the barrel many times it will increase as water will preferentially evaporate compared to the ethanol. This seems to mostly occur in the west where there is lower humidity but it also will change based on the barrel entry proof. I have seen many barrels over the years that exit over 125 proof these make for some really cool vanillay whiskies. Oxidation gets complicated but the easiest reaction is the breakdown of ethanol into acetic acid while forming acetaldehydes along the way. The acetic acid can then go on to form various esters. Of course, this also takes time which a lot of rapid maturation techniques ignore.
For home again I would start with a high proof white whiskey like others have suggested though it is worth checking the mash bill is you can in order to make those palatable and affordable the distillers tend to go short on rye and heavy on corn and even if they do use the same mash bill they will typically change how they make their cuts so you probably won’t end up with the same complexity. If I was home aging, I would instead target short aged barrel proof whiskies something like EH Taylor Barrel proof I would also be very careful of small barrels particularly anything under 15 gallons. They have way too much surface area and dump and ton of tannins in quickly when new and even fairly old. The wood flavors tend to override everything else fairly quickly and then its basically impossible to recover if you want to go that small, I would look at a mason jar but cover it with cheese cloth rather than a lid so that it will still be able to breath.
DIY whiskey oak infusion
I agree. My go-to whiskey is Bulleit because of the higher rye percentage in the mash bill.
There is a hybrid wheat grown here in Arizona called Desert Durham. The bulk of it is shipped off to Italy where they love to make pasta out of it, but theArizona Distilling Co. in Tempe gets enough to produce a wheat bourbon. When I sampled it on a tour it was sweeter than I liked so I stuck to their Copper City bourbon with a corn/rye mash bill instead.
Huh. As a railfan I couldn’t count the number of entire trains of ADMX tank cars going by but, not knowing they distilled too, I’d assumed it was corn syrup. I’ll have to look more closely; ethanol in that quantity makes more sense.
And, finally, there’s the creed of the Whisk(e)y Tribe: The best whisk(e)y is the whisk(e)y you like to drink, however you like to drink it. It’s all a matter of taste.
Maybe someone else with more experience can comment (Oredigger77?), but the charring of the barrel’s interior is crucial from what I understand, in that it transforms part of the barrel interior just inside the carbonized part into something that can leach into the spirit and flavor it. And from what I understand as well, the carbonized part gives a minor carbon-filtering element as well.
Just sticking a wooden sphere in some vodka isn’t going to do squat if they’re not charred or at least toasted. In general, the vanillin-type compounds are lignin degradation compounds created during toasting/charring. It’s true that some can be created through hydrolysis via alcohol and water, but you’d have to leave your spheres in your vodka for a LONG time- years and years, I suspect.
You’re probably a lot better off going to a home winemaking vendor and getting something like these: Oak Cubes - American Heavy Toast or one of these: Oak Infusion Spiral - American Medium Plus Toast.
And… on the subject of bourbon, I got a bottle of Evan Williams 100 BiB- it’s amazingly good stuff for a not-quite $13 bottle of whiskey. Great for cocktails, and drinkable by itself.
You’ve got it basically correct the lignin needs to break down to create the flavor compounds you’re looking for otherwise you get lots of grassy notes. Where there is some debate it the value of the char. It doesn’t have a filtering effect which helps to remove the longer chain ethanols but it also pushes back the boundary of the optimum breakdown of lignin which means that it takes more time to get the flavor out of the oak. For rapid maturation more people are turning to a heavily toasted barrel particularly if you’re looking for a vanilla punch. Time will allow for more complex breaking down of the lignan mainly from molds which is why there is some debate between kiln dried staves and air dried but I don’t think anyone reading what I’m writing here is going to get into that part of the business.
I will say that there is no reason to buy the cubes of pre toasted oak. The spirals are a little different in that they improve the contact area tremendously and you can watch the color and flavor getting sucked out of them. Rather then spend the big bucks (unless you’re importing french oak) I’d just run down to Home depot and buy an oak 2 x 4 cut it up with your table saw into 1" cubes and throw the cubes in your oven at 400 F for an hour or two. Then if you want to add the Carbon you can break out a blow torch and add the char.
Amazing stuff, isn’t it? I don’t think you can find a better bourbon at that price point.
Well, shit. I discovered Bulleit Rye by accident a couple of years ago, and it’s been my go-to drink ever since. (I like most bourbons and Irish whiskeys; cannot stand Scotch.)
Now you’re telling me that many of the rye whiskies on the shelf come from the same place. So, dumb question: is there a huge difference in all of the rye brands that are originally distilled at MGP? Should I be saving money by buying something cheaper than Bulleit?
I’ll have to check it out. I’m not fond of Jack Daniel’s, but they’re BIB/longer aged/special offerings are pretty good.
No, see above. It’s a slightly shady business practice, but Bulleit puts their own spin on it, it’s not identical to the other ones.
Location: Kansas, I think you have some rough sin laws, but if Costco is allowed to sell booze near you, mine sells Bulleit bourbon and rye for like $33/1.5L, which is less than half what it sells elsewhere.
Damn, your Bulleit handles (1.75L, though that brand doesn’t come in a literal handled bottle) are expensive if they’re really twice that price. My local liquor superstore sells them for $39.99. Haven’t checked our Costco.
Sorry typo, yes 1.75 L.
Grocery stores sell Bulleit fifths (750 mL) for $30-38 range from my memory. So for more than twice the quantity, it’s about the same price. If you go to specialty liquor stores, like Total Wine, it’s not quite as dramatic, but still more expensive. $35/handle.
Of course you’re always paying a premium for the smaller quantities, but they main issue is that grocery stores don’t sell handles of the nicer stuff. Jameson is similarly different, I think $36 or something at Costco, $50+ at grocery stores.
Thanks. I finally figured that out myself after submitting my post.
We’re marginally better than we used to be, but the only place where liquor and wine can be sold is a liquor store. I just bought a handle of Bulleit rye from my local liquor superstore for about fifty bucks.
Look for “Distilled by” on the bottle. Per the US TTB (Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau) producers don’t have to put “Distilled by” on the bottle. If they do it must be the actual distiller. So if you see a bottle that says “Distilled by Jack Daniels” you can be confident that Jack Daniels actually distilled it. Many of the spirit companies that purchase their distillate from another company won’t do that because it messes with their marketing “story.” They only put “Bottled by” on the label.
So how does Tito’s get way with stating they distill their own distillate? After the tanker truck drops off the ethanol they run it through their own still. That is enough to satisfy the TTB label requirements. Shady? As hell. Legal? Unfortunately yes.
I have a large bottle of Knob Creek myself. I don’t usually drink bourbon straight though. Usually I use it to mix an Old Fashioned. I bought Knob Creek to change things up from my usual Makers Mark.
Besides Old Fashioneds, I’m really more of a scotch or vodka martini drinker.
That does sound like a serious alcohol problem. Were you able to eventually develop a task for hard liquor?
Well, every word of that sums up my experience with coffee. I started teaching in my 40s, and within the first semester, I went from “Eeeew… why would anyone drink this bitter sludge?” to “Mmmm, comfort food…”
(Glad I did. It was handy in those 8am classes to have one person in the room who was awake…)
Would you say the same thing about jalapeños, asparagus, kombucha or other foods/drinks that you appreciate as you grow and your tastes become more mature?
But, hey, I can understand your emotional response if you kicked a drinking habit. Huge congratulations!
Have no fear… Evan Williams is a Heaven Hill product, not anything put out by Jack Daniels or Brown Forman. It’s a pretty straightforward bourbon- somewhat balanced (the mashbill is 78% corn, 10% rye, 12% barley). It’s a tremendous value- it’s not Bookers or Old Noah or anything like that, but it is about $13.
I’ve had the Bulleit and Dickel ryes that were originally sourced from MGP, and they’re definitely different. Granted, Dickel puts theirs through that same charcoal filtering Lincoln county process that Jack Daniels touts for their Tennessee whiskey. And yet, they’re also somewhat similar, in that they’re both very clearly very high rye whiskies. They’re fundamentally different than say… Sazerac Rye, which is also very good, but has a much lower rye percentage (I’ve seen 51% rye, 39% corn, 10% barley listed).
I’m not sure which I like more; the lower percentage rye whiskies are still very rye-forward, even compared to “high rye” bourbons like Old Grand Dad 114 (~30% rye), but nearly straight rye is almost… overwhelming? I’m thinking I prefer the lower percentage rye whiskies.
Hmmm… similar concept to the little tequila barrels you see everywhere when driving through Jalisco. You can buy the little barrels, and some cheap tequila to fill them with. In a year, you’ll have a pretty good tequila. It’s not going to turn a rot-gut into a Don Julio, but it will turn a reasonably inexpensive blanco into a Correlejo.