Sorry, I am not your monkey (Responses to personal ads)

[storyteller0910]

This is a bit of a tangent, but I want to respond to this (some of original quite snipped for brevity:

@Stoid

And let me add this: I actually do, or have always in the past, very much preferred to attract people who will like me in spite of my age and size (mostly size til recently, obviously). Yep, you heard it right. Several reasons:

1. Not interested in being anyone’s fetish.

2. Seeking out someone who desires me for my looks (in part) means I’m owning my looks as being who I am. This is something I have always struggled with. Don’t want to be in denial, but I don’t want to identify, either.

3. The chubby chasers I’ve met have always been a little weird.

Stoid, you don’t know me from Adam, and you’re entitled to pursue your dating life any old way you see fit. So I hope you don’t mind if I wade in and try to discuss this particular aspect of your posting a bit. Because very honestly, from my perspective, it sounds nuts. Worse still, it’s sounds profoundly unfair.

I mean, you start by setting up the neat little train of logic that says that any man who finds you physically attractive would be a fetishist or a “chubby chaser.” So, I mean, that’s a tough place to start.

But then we get into a long, involved, and clearly long-held philosophy of life, in which men who find their partners physically attractive are, by definition, not really interested in their partners qua people, just in their partners qua “hotties.” You make the assumption that you get to be more secure with your partner than another woman might be with a partner who is attracted to her physically because *your * partner wants you for YOU (whereas, presumably, that other woman’s partner only wants her for her rack, I guess). Which is problematic in two ways:

(1) Just as Halle Berry’s man could find someone hotter than she is, your man could find someone who is funnier, wittier, whatever-er than you are. The fact that a man is interested in your mind rather than your body has no bearing on whether or not he may find someone he wants more.

(2) The idea that a man who finds his partner physically attractive - even incredibly so - is somehow automatically and by definition less interested in her as a person is so weird as to be beyond comprehension. Why would you set up this dichotomy? What leads you to believe that this is true? I’m married. I love my wife for a host of reasons - she and I are well suited for one another as people, we share common interests, we make one another laugh, our ways of thinking and our priorities in life are similar. I also think she’s beautiful, and I - cough - admire her body quite a lot.

Do you consider these things mutually exclusive? Because it sounds like you do. Not only does that suck for anyone who wants to date you - because if he’s attracted to you, he is by definition both a pervert and a shallow jerk who’s only in it for the body - it’s a little insulting to all the people in secure, happy relationships that do include mutual physical attraction.

[Stoid]

@storyteller0910

This is a bit of a tangent,

I love tangents. That’s what conversation is and why I’ve always loved the Dope!

Stoid, you don’t know me from Adam, and you’re entitled to pursue your dating life any old way you see fit. So I hope you don’t mind if I wade in and try to discuss this particular aspect of your posting a bit. Because very honestly, from my perspective, it sounds nuts.

Been getting a lot of that lately It goes to show the limits of this kind of interaction, even among people who write well.

I mean, you start by setting up the neat little train of logic that says that any man who finds you physically attractive would be a fetishist or a “chubby chaser.” So, I mean, that’s a tough place to start.

No, I was just referring to the ones that are.

But then we get into a long, involved, and clearly long-held philosophy of life, in which men who find their partners physically attractive are, by definition, not really interested in their partners qua people,

No, not by definition at all, that’s your conclusion. I was using the extreme example of two particularly beautiful women I know to show the problems that can and do arise with physical attractiveness being prized too highly.

(1) Just as Halle Berry’s man could find someone hotter than she is, your man could find someone who is funnier, wittier, whatever-er than you are. The fact that a man is interested in your mind rather than your body has no bearing on whether or not he may find someone he wants more.

Of course. Except that the other qualities are both multiple and by their nature much more complex overall, therefore harder to replicate in any one person as well as harder to even determine. Sure, some gal might be funnier than me, for instance, but is she also smarter, wiser, cuddlier and give the awesome blowjobs? Learning that takes time. Assessing hottitude and responding to it is pretty instantaneous.

(2) The idea that a man who finds his partner physically attractive - even incredibly so - is somehow automatically and by definition less interested in her as a person is so weird as to be beyond comprehension. Why would you set up this dichotomy? What leads you to believe that this is true? I’m married. I love my wife for a host of reasons - she and I are well suited for one another as people, we share common interests, we make one another laugh, our ways of thinking and our priorities in life are similar. I also think she’s beautiful, and I - cough - admire her body quite a lot.

I’m not “automatically by definition” - see above.

Do you consider these things mutually exclusive? Because it sounds like you do. Not only does that suck for anyone who wants to date you - because if he’s attracted to you, he is by definition both a pervert and a shallow jerk who’s only in it for the body - it’s a little insulting to all the people in secure, happy relationships that do include mutual physical attraction.

No, I do not consider them mutually exclusive, see above.

You have to consider the rest of what I said in that post. It’s simply that it doesn’t work for ME to be with someone who prioritizes looks, period. If they are a priority for him in terms of wanting beauty, I’m not his pick anyway. If they are a priority for him in that he wants someone who looks like me, that has problems for me that I’ve described already (and chances are, it is a tad fetishy. Just a tad. Nothing wrong with that, I just don’t want to be the fetish fulfillment. I dont’ wanna be representin’ so to speak.)

I’ve been counting on my personality to get me laid since I was 12 (no, i didn’t have sex!) and my ultra hot early developed friend’s boyfriend cheated on her by necking with me cuz he thought I was so incredibly funny. Seriously. And that’s just fine with me, it feels better, it feels realer, more solid, more about ME than the shell I walk around in. The shell I walk around in has never been much to write home about, and it becomes less so as I age (even though I’m more fit, strangely enough).

Living in L.A., I simply cannot compete on that basis, and I’m not imagining that, I’ve been to other places: the people really do look different here. In other towns and cities, it’s just the people in magazines and on TV who look like that. The people in my town ARE the people in magazines and on TV, along with people who looked that good so they left your town and came to mine!

[Starving_Artist]

@RedFury

But of course…if you’re histerically funny, willing to “entertain me,” promise great sex (I don’t), enjoy being a couch potato more than walking on the beach (I’m w/Stoid about sand getting into all the wrong places) and fine dining at Taco Bell, BK and KFC.

Back to you.

Smooth.

[you_with_the_face]

@RedFury

But of course…if you’re histerically funny, willing to “entertain me,” promise great sex (I don’t), enjoy being a couch potato more than walking on the beach (I’m w/Stoid about sand getting into all the wrong places) and fine dining at Taco Bell, BK and KFC.

You woulda had me if you hadn’t misspelled “hysterically”.

Deal’s off.

[RedFury]

@Starving Artist

Smooth.

Yep. Is it any wonder I named my Dobiegirl, Silky?

---

@you with the face

You woulda had me if you hadn’t misspelled “hysterically”.

Deal’s off.

Y, oh, Y? :smack:

But I ‘coulda’ and almost ‘woulda.’ So all is not lost. Self-esteem left almost intact.

[Starving_Artist]

@RedFury

But I ‘coulda’ and almost ‘woulda.’ So all is not lost. Self-esteem left almost intact.

Yep, because psychologically speaking, “could’a” is amost as good as “did,” yes, no?

[Zoe]

RTFirefly: I had an off-the-wall, Marx/Python sort of sense of humor.

Really? Marx and Python? Trotsky was the one who left us red faced – slobbering and snorting into our wine.

Or do you mean those boys with the big eyes and the harp? What was their country…Freedonia? Doesn’t sound very Bolshevik to me, but if you say so.

Well hello, Starvin’ Darlin’!

[RTFirefly]

@Zoe

Really? Marx and Python? Trotsky was the one who left us red faced – slobbering and snorting into our wine.

Or do you mean those boys with the big eyes and the harp? What was their country…Freedonia? Doesn’t sound very Bolshevik to me, but if you say so.

Well, I do have a T-shirt that says, “Sure, I’m a Marxist!” under a pic of Groucho, Chico, Harpo, and Karl.

[Scuba_Ben]

@RTFirefly

Well, I do have a T-shirt that says, “Sure, I’m a Marxist!” under a pic of Groucho, Chico, Harpo, and Karl.

And here I thought I was the only one like that… After a discussion last weekend, I’ve determined that my politics are a mix of contrarian, Libertarian, Groucho Marxist, and Norton Royalist.

I don’t think this thread has been thoroughly derailed yet, we can keep the threadjacking going for another few posts.

[Nava]

@you with the face

You woulda had me if you hadn’t misspelled “hysterically”.

Deal’s off.

Eh, c’mon, girl, English as Second Language, give a guy a break!

Just don’t try to get between the TV screen and him if the Spanish National Soccer Team is playing

[you_with_the_face]

@Nava

Eh, c’mon, girl, English as Second Language, give a guy a break!

Oh all right.

RedFury, I’ll save you a biscuit from my KFC two-piece meal when I have my big night on the town tonight. Next time I fly over a Spanish speaking country, I’ll throw it down to you as a gesture of love.

[Starving_Artist]

@Zoe

Well hello, Starvin’ Darlin’!

Hi, Sweetie! How YOU doin’?

[RedFury]

@Starving Artist

Yep, because psychologically speaking, “could’a” is amost as good as “did,” yes, no?

Bzzzt! You lose.

For it seems you with the face has come to her senses…what with a little help from my countrywoman, Nava – whom I am also planning on meeting; when our NT is not playing of course.

Anyway, thanks ladies for throwing me a bone – or a biscuit as the case may be.

Looove getting one over SA any chance I get.

[Starving_Artist]

:smack:

[RedFury]

@Starving Artist

:smack:

Surely you’ll recover. After all, I am not 'The On-line Dating Machine."

Say, didn’t you write the book on that? If so, how goes it? In Hugh Hefner’s league I’d imagine.

[Starving_Artist]

@RedFury

Surely you’ll recover. After all, I am not 'The On-line Dating Machine."

Say, didn’t you write the book on that? If so, how goes it? In Hugh Hefner’s league I’d imagine.

Not quite, though now that he’s narrowed things down to only three women it’s easier to try to play catch-up.

[RTFirefly]

@Scuba_Ben

And here I thought I was the only one like that… After a discussion last weekend, I’ve determined that my politics are a mix of contrarian, Libertarian, Groucho Marxist, and Norton Royalist.

I don’t think this thread has been thoroughly derailed yet, we can keep the threadjacking going for another few posts.

We can sure try.

I’ve also got the Firesign Theatre album with the Soviet-looking “All Hail Marx-Lennon” cover. Groucho and John, of course.

[brazil84]

I’ve never placed a personal ad, but if I did, I would definitely put “no games” in the ad.

Sadly, it seems like a lot of women delight in showing interest in a guy, and then rebuffing him, for example by breaking a date at the last minute. I don’t know exactly why they do it, but it’s really annoying.

It’s possible for a man to out-game the woman. The classic move is to sweet-talk ( or guilt) her into bed before he has any strong feelings for her. At that point, the man has a lot more power in the relationship. But personally, I don’t think I would want to have sex with a woman that I didn’t have strong feelings for. Or manipulate her into screwing me.

Fortunately for me, my wife was never much of a game player.

[Manduck]

@Stoid

Here’s the thing: I KNOW I’m smart and funny and interesting and have a great voice and something to say and you’d be very entertained by me.
[…]
Here’s a tip: before you put together your list of qualities, traits and interests, consider each one in this light: would most people be willing to cop to the OPPOSITE of this quality or trait in a personal ad? If the answer is pretty much “no fuckin’ way”, you can consider it a given, utterly generic, uninteresting, and completley useless in enhancing your appeal to anyone who is an interesting person themselves.

So, do you think most people would be willing to cop to being stupid, unfunny, boring, and having a crappy voice and nothing to say and that you would not be entertained by them? What a confusing OP.

[eleanorigby]

Just my two cents, but yes, you do come off as narcissistic and arrogant. I’ve never noticed you on the Dope before, has this dating issue been a frequent thread topic for you?
I think this bit below says it all, statements of confidence, surety and courage to the contrary. It’s from post #81.

@Stoid

A quote from an email the #1 guy wrote me after our first night together:

"I was thinking this morning that your craigslist ad is very ballsy[… ]While you may be a confident woman who knows what she wants and isn’t afraid to ask for it or go after it, you are not harsh or aggressive. You are very soft and warm, emotionally and physically. You want to be held, caressed, and made to feel safe (me too). That’s a vulnerable position to put yourself in, hence the initial guardedness from both of us. I wonder what sort of response you would get to a more tender ad, who you might lure into your cozy web. Like you said, if not for my persistence (part of my character), we may never have gotten past our first conversation and visit on Sunday.

Well, one of the things I’ve actually come to understand via my relationship with this man in particular, held up against all my other relationships, is that what I’m truly desperate for is someone who will be persistent, who will see past the noise, and who, at the end of the day, is plenty strong and confident enough to handle me in all my flavors. Dialing it down just makes it safe for the wimps and submissives and assholes, and I don’t want it to be safe for them, I want them to stay the fuck away.

Underlining mine.

Sorry to quote such a long passage. Who is playing games, now? You want “someone who will be persistent, who will see past the noise.” You say you’re all about confidence and speaking out and I Am Woman–but what is this? This reads like a Harlequin romance–Good, Strong Man breaks down Fiery Woman’s Defenses or some shit like that. That alone tells me that you are not as secure as you would like to appear. What I don’t get is why you dismiss others for the same very human traits that are present in yourself. It sounds to me like you want the men to be YOUR monkies–here, jump through all these hoops and I’ll decide whether you’re “spongeworthy.” Forget that-would you take that from anyone else? Why try that on others, then? I think you are building your walls too high-and to mix my metaphors, throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Intelligence and humor (wit or your “funny”) come across in almost every medium, even online postings. There may well be a massive number of inarticulate men(and women) online. Since you are choosing to use this medium, you need to tolerate its limitations a bit more. You cannot post on a public dating site and not expect to get the inarticulate, the incoherent, the inane and the essentially insane. That’s the breaks. Instead of coming here to assure us that you are God’s Gift to men or something, why not just press delete on those messages you don’t care for?

And, last point- aside from those who are just trolling for sex online, whom do you think doesn’t want to “be held, caressed and feel safe”? Surely that is the goal of all humankind, at one point or another? You are asking to be loved in life, as are we all. Welcome to the world, Stoid.