Sorry, maybe I'm naive, but I don't view all men as potential rapists or predators.

Nobody thinks you are a rapist. I cannot understand why you are taking something that has nothing to do with you (a woman exercising precautions to avoid sexual assault or worse) and getting so personally offended by it. Maybe look beyond your own personal experience and consider that not everything is about you?

What exactly are you suggesting women do then? Can you explain what you want women to do when they feel their spidey sense tingling, ignore it? Just let themselves be raped so that they are sure not to offend you?

Sorry, but I am not a “Potential Rapist” either. And I reject the label strongly.

Apparently, it’s perfectly fine to say “All Men are Potential Rapists” when generalizations of that sort applied to literally any other grouping of people would be correctly slapped down as racist or bigoted.

I’m not talking about a man actually doing something that makes a woman feel unsafe. Of course that’s not what I’m talking about. But being leery of a man, simply because he is a man, is what I am talking about.

Are any women potential rapists?

Where did I say I treat anyone like a potential rapist?

Because I don’t do that.

What I do is assume that because I’m a woman, a guy is more likely to have different motivations when being friendly towards me than a woman has, so as a result I modulate my behavior in certain situations. I can be perfectly polite and respectful and kind to someone while maintaining my personal boundaries.

No one, derp or non-derp, is going to be able to convince me that this is unethical or wrong. I have personally been in very very unpleasant situations that were caused by me not being aware of gender dynamics and the signals I was unintentionally sending out. So, I refuse to make that mistake again.

If that causes you some butthurt, oh well. I’m guessing you do not know how it feels to be chased down the street by a stranger whose gaze you accidently met while waiting for the light to turn green. When you have that experience, then you can lecture me on how sexist it is to have a different set of responses to opposite-sex friendliness than same-sex friendliness.

What makes you think the woman giving you a compliment on the bus isn’t hitting on you?

To answer your question, I’ve ridden public buses maybe 3 times in my life. I doubt I hit on any women when doing so. On planes? I’ve “hit on” a few women when traveling, but much more likely I’ll just start chatting with someone seated near me if I feel in a talkative mood, and it won’t matter whether it’s a man or woman, and I won’t be hitting on either of them.

I don’t know if you said that. But I can find that quote on this board by someone who was not corrected or chastised for saying it.

What I do is assume that because I’m white, a black person is more likely to have different motivations when being friendly towards me than a white person has, so as a result I modulate my behavior in certain situations. I can be perfectly polite and respectful and kind to someone while maintaining my personal boundaries.

Perfectly alright? Not racist or anything?

I think you should maybe get over yourself a little bit. Sorry. I’m not trying to be confrontational, but have you heard all of the #metoo stories that have been going around? I can’t believe how many of my female friends have shared their stories, and it breaks my heart that this stuff is so commonplace. I always knew it was a problem, but I never had any idea how pervasive this kind of thing is in society. You can feel however you feel about it, but the reality is that there are many many men out there that sexually assault, harrass and even worse all the time. I will not fault women, who have to live in this reality, for taking precautions in certain circumstances to feel more safe. I wish like hell that wasn’t the reality we live in, and that no woman would ever feel nervous just walking to their car after work, or stopping at the gym, or taking the subway, but sadly wishing for something doesn’t make it so. It’s unfortunate that you feel personally attacked by this, but you probably should be taking this up with all the men out there that cause this to be an issue. Why you focus your ire on the victims of this reality I can’t comprehend.

I just finished reading a Reddit thread about one of the various sex abuse accusers. A lot of the posters were condeming her for being stupid enough to accept an invitation to the abuser’s hotel room. “WHAT KIND OF IDIOT GOES TO A GUY’S HOTEL ROOM AND DOESN’T EXPECT ANYTHING SEXUAL TO HAPPEN!!!”

I have no doubt some of the same people saying that kind of craziness woulld also play the durr-bot and say that it is sexist to not go to a guy’s hotel room while going to a woman’s hotel room.

Women just can’t win. No matter what we do, there’s always a peanut gallery ready to tongue-cluck.

It seems strange that you think I shouldn’t feel personally attacked by someone stating “All men are potential rapists” when I am a man.

Do you similarly feel that individual Muslims shouldn’t feel personally attacked by someone stating “All Muslims are potential terrorists”?

I’m not sure what’s wrong with “There are a lot of rapists out there. If someone does something that spikes your “rape sense” or whatever, you should do [something]”

I just don’t think “Standing around, being a man” should be something that spikes a “rape sense”

I have never been hit on by a woman.

I have some confidence that I’d be able to defend myself against an aggressive woman.

I have been hit on by men–sometimes aggressively and always unwantedly (if that is a word).

I have no confidence that I’d be able to defend myself against an aggressive man.
These are the facts that go into my calculus–a calculus that I’m not even conscious of all the time.

My question is why should it bother anyone–you, manson, or anyone else–that I don’t perceive a friendy overture from a male the exact same way I do a gesture from a female? As long as I’m not depriving you of any rights or being mean to you or assuming bad things about you, why does it matter that I don’t say “Gurrrl, I love your shoes!” when you pay me a compliment on my haircut, but I might say that if you were another woman? Does it really hurt your feelings that my smile towards you might be of a different nature than the smile I direct at another woman? Or are just trying to score points in some kind of derpy game that you’re not even invested in?

If a female coworker invited you to dinner, would you accept the invitation as readily as you would an invitation a male coworker? Because this would be another example of a situation where I would tread cautiously, and unapologetically so.

I don’t either. Glad we agree on something some facile.

Ok I’ll ask again since you never responded to this the first time:

“What exactly are you suggesting women do then? Can you explain what you want women to do when they feel their spidey sense tingling, ignore it? Just let themselves be raped so that they are sure not to offend you?”

I’m trying every way I can think of to get through to you on this, but every single response from you is pretty much identical. You are so hung up on this one phrase about potential rapists, that you are missing the entire forest for that one tree. I hope you can find a way past that block at some point and learn to consider what its like in someone else’s shoes. It’s ok to let it go and decide not to be offended. I’m way more offended by what women have to deal with every single day out in the world from these kinds of men than anything they have to do as a reaction to that.

I’m pretty sure there is a difference between a man standing in the subway doing nothing but minding his own business, and a man performing some actions that a woman feels uneasy about.

According to some, the man standing in the subway doing nothing but minding his own business is STILL “a potential rapist”

THAT’S what I object to.

Is it that hard to understand?

And to directly answer, if the guy is doing nothing but standing there minding his own business, then yeah, they should ignore it. Same as if they felt a spidey sense tingling by seeing a black person, or a muslim who is doing nothing but standing their minding their own business. Or walking down the street minding their own business.

Again, saying “Every black person is a potential felon” is wrong.

Saying “Every Muslim is a potential terrorist” is wrong.

Saying “Every man is a potential rapist” - perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it. :dubious:

Can we at least agree that every person in the world is a potential Hitler?

Bit busy, but thought I’d drop by and offer an opinion and a story.
First, opinion. I understand why a woman would be more concerned for her well being than being politically correct. At the same time, I don’t always appreciated getting suspicious stares because I happened to glance in the direction of a woman briefly at a green light who happens to be going in the same direction of myself.

It’s a complicated issue, and there are no good answers that are going to make everyone happy.

Maybe us “good guys” should all wear t-shirts that say, “I’m not a rapist, so why won’t you fuck me?”

Anyway, story, and it’ll be brief, as I actually am taking a brief break from other things I need to be doing right now.

I’ve worked food service from 14 years old until a few years ago. One thing about food service is that there are quite a number of people that have car issues, especially servers. It doesn’t pay all that well, and getting paid in cash everyday makes you less disciplined in wealth management.

End result, many servers need rides to and from work all that time. I had a car, so I would pick up or drop off servers pretty much every day. If it was well out of my way, I’d ask for a contribution on gas money, but mainly I found it useful having servers owe me a favor for when I needed food run or other server duties that they tended to slack off on from time to time. It was nice that I ended up with a cadre of servers that followed my directions, it made the restaurant run much more smoothly.

All the female servers wanted to get a ride with me. I thought that was pretty cool, and used the time to go over menu items and plans and general business stuff (this is as just another employee, not a manager).

It was only a few years later, that I discovered the reason that the servers were so eager to get a ride in my not so new or clean car, with its crappy tape deck and me droning on about running food and making salads. It was because that was a price they were far more willing to pay than the price most of the other cooks demanded, which were, obvious now that I think about it, sexual favors of varying degrees. The guy that told me about this was making fun of me for missing out on blowjobs, or at least getting to feel her up. Apparently, being bored by my diatribes and then owing me a favor of running food was preferable to sexual assault, in their eyes.

So, yeah, I get it. Many men are pigs that objectify women and use them for their personal gratification. But then, most of these men are also pigs who use other men for their personal amusement as well, even if it is is not sexual in nature, but just bullying and jerkishness. They get enjoyment out of dominating others and uplifting themselves in the process. There are certainly women out there like that as well, but they are not typically in as high positions of power as the men are, so even if it is an even split in the demographics, it is still the men that are doing the greater harm (for now).

What it comes down to, I guess, is that some percentage of people are assholes who desire to harm or at least dominate others. Men, being physically stronger on average than women, and holding more social, economic, and political power at this time than women, are better positioned to make their desires to harm and dominate a reality.

And really, that’s the biggest reason why some level of “sexism” is appropriate. There is a power disparity between women and men. If I was alone with a woman, and decided to rape her, there’s really not all that much she could do about it, not all that great a chance that I would get punished for it after the fact either. And it is quite the naive woman that doesn’t know that. Some men that don’t know that may be naive, but it really does border on intentional ignorance to sit back and ponder for what reason a woman has more to be concerned about being alone with a man than a man has being left alone with a woman, or even with another man, or really anyone.

Good thing nobody is doing that. What I am doing is objecting to a generalization that when applied to anyone else would be characterized as racism or bigotry. But applying it to men is apparently ok.

Your story also disgusted me. Not you, but the attitudes of the other drivers :frowning:

Can you please point out which post of mine it was where I said every man is a potential rapist? I don’t recall ever saying that.

You seem to be replying to someone else rather than actually reading the words that I’ve typed. Maybe if you reply to things I’ve actually said we could be having a more productive discussion?

So you don’t think that every man is a potential rapist?