I’m posting this in response to soulsling’s comments in this thread from GQ which was closed because it contained a link to a website that the Chicago Reader apparently finds naughty. I thought it was kinda silly, but that’s not why I’m here. I was at work when the thread was closed and didn’t get a chance to respond to some of soulsling’s comments.
If you’re too lazy to read the thread, here’s the deal: Soulsling claimed to have made acid in high school. I pointed out that making LSD takes a helluva lot of expensive equipment and controlled precursors.
Soulsling said:
I think the phrase “recipe for acid” says it all. It’s called a fucking synthesis. You’re not baking a damn cake! I think that about shows the extent of your chemistry knowledge right there.
He still seemed to be pretty adament about making acid, though, so I start to figure that maybe the guy isn’t lying and he was some sort of high school chemistry genius.
Then he says what I had been waiting for the whole time. It wasn’t LSD he made. It was LSA (lysergic acid amines). He tried to pass it off as pretty much the same as LSD. Uh, not quite. Then he sent me an email explaining how to extract LSA from a certain plant. The email was cut and pasted from a file that’s all over the damn web on every drug site you can find. So much for chemists keeping their secret info off the web. (By the way, the real LSD synthesis can be found on many websites as well.)
Oh and did I mention that LSA is ~20 times weaker than LSD? Calling it acid is like grabbing a can of Near Bear and calling it Tequila. I actually extracted it once, and you know what I got for all my efforts? A bucket full of vomit an hour after I took it and no trip whatsoever. Back when I used to hang out there, denizens of alt.drugs reported similar stories. Some said they had very light trips, but nothing compared to the real deal.
HA! You should see the file he sent me. It’s about a half page long and one of the simplest things I’ve ever seen!
A book? You read a 200 word text file!
Okay, I’m done. I hope this is in line with the Reader’s policies. I was careful not to mention exactly which plant the stuff was extracted from, so that should stop anybody who’s unfamiliar with the concept of a search engine.
I’d like to mention also that I actually said my friends and I made acid. Never said LSD. Lysergic Acid. Not Lysergic Acid Diethylmide, a further derivitive of a continued but lengthy and possibly dangerous processs of creating LSA. I’ve also made my apologies personally to those I felt deserved it for lashing out at taking personally something I really should of just let go on the boards. Calling someone a liar when they haven’t lied is pretty low and uncalled for. Unfounded.
I usually don’t check this forum, but i imagined someone would start a pit thread about me because of the above mentioned thread. Thanx, my first introduction into the Pit!
That’s a big smiley for me. But that’s it as well I think, I really don’t care to check back here again otherwise.
Acid is slang for LSD, not LSA. When somebody says acid, I, along with the rest of the world, take it to mean LSD. I’ve never heard anyone refer to LSA as acid. Come to think of it, I don’t think I ever heard anyone refer to LSA at all, because most people realize how crappy it is.
If that wasn’t a lie, it was at least incredibly deceptive. You went on about a high school chemistry lab and older, experienced friends. You don’t even need a chem lab to extract LSA! And if that load of crap about keeping “recipes” off the web to make more money isn’t deceptive, I don’t know what is.
The big fucking deal is that I don’t like liars … or deceptive people, or whatever the hell you want to call this guy. And when I catch someone in a lie (or deception), I like others to know so they don’t get suckered in. I have been nothing less than completely truthful ever since I first registered here under my old username last September. I expect the same from others.
I don’t appreciate people trying to pull the wool over my eyes.
soulsling, I’m going to have to call you on this one. Making lysergic acid is a preposterous concept in the United States. If you check this site to verify my suspicions, you’ll find that lysergic acid is a highly controlled substance. The goverment only allows credible pharmaceutical and chemical firms to import ergotamine tartrate (the preferred starting point from which to synthesize lysergic acid). Not only is the synthesis of lysergic acid from morning glory seeds minimally productive, the quality and concentration of the product is dubious.
I’ve spent a fair amount of time in the lab. I’ve contemplated making LSD, but the most difficult obstacle to do so is obtaining viable lysergic acid. If it were obtained so easily, you’d find many more LSD labs in the US.
Sorry buddy, you may have made a low concentration and impure lysergic acid amide, but the synthesis of lysergic acid isn’t easily accomplished.
Although calling it a “recipe” isn’t something you can call him on, for what it’s worth. The Master once used a phrase like “The thioacrylate recipe is:” followed by a formula. I shouldn’t have to explain that it’s a jaunty metaphor.
Making acid is not really easy, then again you don’t need a degree to make it either. I have been in a major acid lab (DC shhhh!) and no it’s not something you can do with a couple pots and pans and the local chemical supply. There are a couple methods to get LSA (which is pretty useless taken alone[-doesn’t imitate serotonin well enough]) from which to convert to the semi-synthetic, LSD-25.
Well, actually making acid isn’t too hard even without a chem degree * if you have directions. *
I’m sure it’s not easy or anything, and requires some equipment (btw regarding previous thread, mass spec would be pretty much useless here, NMR and maybe an FT-IR would serve you much better). I believe a vacuum pump was also mentioned as required equipment; you can get a used one for a couple hundred dollars (won’t pull a great vacuum, but probably enough). Honestly, I could probably do it with a little planning and such (I do have the organic synthesis knowledge needed and acess to an actual lab). On the other hand, lots of non-chem people manufacture drugs–some chemist figures out how to do it, writes it out in laymen’s terms, and passes it on. I used to live in a dorm that was a former acid lab…and this is at an art-heavy school where no one knows any science. As for getting the raw materials, just about anybody who orders from Aldrich or Fischer can get them. Of course, they will check up on you, but with a valid cover story, it’s not hard. A favorite game of (some) chem students is to try and order the stuff without getting caught by the teachers.
I do, however, like my old organic prof’s response when someone asked if we could synthesize THC in lab: “sure, but you have to eat it yourself right away”. I pity the fool who eats anything they’ve made in lab.
I will agree that,
It is therefore incredibly dangerous for anybody who doesn’t have the proper analytical tools and organic synthesis knowledge. However, that has never stopped people before, and I’m sure it doesn’t. Besides, my guess is that most smart drug manufacturers don’t dare eat anything they’ve made themselves (they probably get the European stuff).
Whatever the actual veracity of soulsling’s claim (I’m not even gonna touch this one), it is certainly possible. This is not to say that it isn’t stupidly dangerous, just that it could’ve happened.
neutron star:
Went to the site you posted on the previous thread describing why LSD is so hard to synthesize. Try scrolling down a bit and reading all the way through. They describe (in somewhat vague terms) a really easy synthesis of it.
Actually, it’s exactly (or very similar to) what I, or any chemist worth their salt, would do given the task of synthesizing said chemical.
As the site does point out, most people actually making the stuff in their basement don’t know this and use much more difficult means. However, somebody with a little intelligence and access to a good organic textbook and the * JOC * could, in theory, pull it off the easy way.
I mean, I don’t know soulsling personally, so I can’t vouch for his intelligence, but do you remember hearing about that kid in the midwest somewhere (this was a few years back…'95??) who buildt ** a parially functional small scale breeder reactor? **
Damn near irradiated the whole neighborhood, but probably did better than most nuclear physicists would, given the same resources.