Huh? what are talking about?
silentmikew, Mangetout was talking about The Art Bell Show. I don’t listen to it myself, but I’ve heard they do make some rather extraordinary claims, which have a higher standard of proof around here than more ordinary ones. Also, this message board is set up so you can’t edit your posts. This prevents someone claiming X said Y and X denying that after erasing or editing all evidence that he did. As a result, people are pretty good about allowing for typos, but if you could use capital letters, us old geezers around here would appreciate it.
Welcome to the Board!
CJ
Mangetout is also being funny (making a play on the word “well”). “Poisoning the well” is a type of logical fallacy in which the listener is offered a choice between the speaker’s viewpoint (usually loaded with assumptions that may or may not be valid) and another one (cast in the most negative light possible), without consideration that both sides of the argument may not be accurately portrayed or that there may be other options as well.
Here’s a possibly useful site discussing the “Poisoned Well” fallacy in the context of Biblical inerrancy. Consider yourself enlightened.
Was I? Er… I mean Yes! Wasn’t it Terribly clever of me, heheh (I wish it had been so, but it was entirely coincidental).
Yes, what I meant to say is that it would be fallacious for me to say “I wouldn’t believe anything I hear on the Art Bell show”, because anyone is logically capable of speaking the truth sometimes, however (my understanding is that) it has a history of frequently presenting dubious information as solid fact; seek corroboration from a reliable source.
:wally
Paul Harvey has (assuming he’s still around) a long history of peddling glurge and UL’s on his show as well. A good story is one thing; the truth is often something else again.
originally posted by Lissa
My point of the comment was not to give credence to this story but rather to point out that it seems any time something comes along that may give some proof that the Bible or its accounts are true it is made a mockery of and simply disregarded as foolish.
originally posted by Lissa
I will try not to be offended by this comment but i understand you are just walking “the company line”. I would say that someone who believes this way is uneducated but rather chosen to believe what they read in the Bible. It just unecessary for me to believe what a man is saying when God has already explained it. It’s as simple as that.
See, here’s the problem. You gotta look at each case separately before you look at the pattern.
If someone listens to the recording of “screams from hell” and recognizes a clip from an old Spooky Hallowe’en CD on it, then they’re justified in mocking that recording, WHETHER OR NOT THE BIBLE IS ACCURATE.
If somebody watches a documentary on which an explorer shows a piece of Noah’s Ark, and then later finds out that the “explorer” was really holding a piece of wood from his backyard that he’d soaked in teriyaki sauce and put in the microwave for a few minutes, then they’re justified in mocking the documentary, WHETHER OR NOT THE BIBLE IS ACCURATE.
If you sincerely believe in the Bible, I’d think you’d be even angrier than we are at hoaxters: for the same reasons that PETA pisses me off, you oughta be pissed off at people who present obviously false evidence supporting the Bible’s accuracy.
Instead, you seem to be making excuses for the hoaxes, or suggesting that there’s some weird company line that demands we expose such hoaxes.
Don’t you want pro-Bible hoaxes exposed, so that the truth is easier to see?
Or do you believe that the “screams of Hell” recording is genuine, despite having a clip from the Spooky Sounds of Hallowe’en CD on it?
Daniel
I forgot a point in here: if proof of the Bible’s veracity is mocked every time it comes along, and that mocking is legit (as in my two examples above), then shouldn’t that tell you something?
OTOH, if only the obviously false proof of the Bible’s veracity is mocked every time it comes along, and the less-ridiculous proof isn’t mocked, isn’t that exactly how things should be?
Daniel
This is interesting because from where I am sitting, it honestly looks like you’re the one walking the company line.
Right because science never debunks and ridicules scientific hoaxes (or just plain bad science). Or are we all enjoying our cold fusion powered cars?
Raygun, my cold fusion car is great, but remember that we’re not supposed to talk about them around Creationists. We only have enough Belief to power them for the science cultists.
Daniel
Just one question, to which part of the bible does this story lend credence? The only one I can come up with is in Revelation, (lake of fire) and even that is stretching things.
Not ALL churches.
Some have had it printed out by the door, others have had print outs about Halloween’s EVILness.
One even talked about gold dust falling on people.(Its supposedly from God)!
WRENCHEAD: it seems any time something comes along that may give some proof that the Bible or its accounts are true it is made a mockery of and simply disregarded as foolish.
Nonsense. Haven’t you heard about, say, the 1990 excavation of an ossuary identified as that of Caiaphas, the High Priest mentioned in the New Testament? That’s not “disregarded as foolish” or “made a mockery of”, for the very good reason that there is actual documented evidence to support it, and respected archaeologists have agreed on its probable validity.
On the other hand, if you’re going to try to “give some proof that the Bible or its accounts are true” by cobbling up a fake story about unidentified Russian scientists on an unidentified Siberian drilling project with a tape of plagiarized spooky sounds, you had better expect to be “made a mockery of” and “disregarded as foolish”. Not because you believe the Bible, but because you’re peddling bullshit.
Company line? The letter from EvilScience, Inc. informing me I was hired must have gotten lost in the mail.
When I said uneducated, I meant uneducated. I’ll admit I don’t know you, but most folks I have known who depend on the Bible for their science don’t know much about real science in the first place bcause they refuse to read anything about it. For example, they may have learned about evolution from a Creationist website.
Know thine enemy, my friend. If you chose to reject the theories of science, that’s fine and dandy, but at least research said theories from a reputable source so that you’ll know what “the other side” believes.
I have studied the Bible in depth. I have studied Creationism carefully. Heck, I even attended a Christian school for five years. I have also studied “secular” science, thus, I’m able to make an informed decision on what I believe.
No offense intended, but I do feel that it is ignorant to make up your mind without studying both sides of an issue.
Well, your exact words were
So are you saying that NOT ALL the churches you’ve been to actually believe it?
Well, the gold dust wackiness and evils of Halloween are separate issues, so let’s not digress here.
As for having this urban legend “printed out by the door,” that doesn’t necessarily mean much. Remember that many churches have bulletin boards where any staff member – or sometimes, virtually anyone – can post an item of interest. These don’t necessarily reflect official church teaching, and I’m sure that many pastors don’t have time to scrutinize everything that goes there. They might only object to the material if someone brings it to their attention.
So in summary, I’d be careful about asserting that every single church you’ve been to adheres to the “sounds of hell” urban legend – especially if the basis for this claim is that some churches have it posted on a mere bulletin board somewhere.
WRENCHEAD, are you by any chance a geocentrist?
I think those sounds are the trilobites and trailer bikes colliding aimlessly in the dense fog. The sentiments at that depth are from the late Devouring period, when fish became obnoxious.
see, i got that sound from the coast to coast am show and to be honest, i think they present alot of sensationalism and alleged proof that this or that is happening wiithout any proof or way to validate that information. sometimes they have an actual guest or show that is actually intelligent or has some valid insights. and about that last post by mystic… HUH?
Are you there, WRENCHEAD? It’s a serious question, and I’d really like to hear your answer. (For that matter, I’d be happy if any “God said it, I believe it, that settles it” creationist would answer it. It’s a real conversation-killer, apparently.)