I totally agree.
So, do you still stand behind your line of argument in this thread that it’s hard to imagine a police officer shooting someone who’s not in any way resisting? It seems like you were basing that in large part on the accounts you’ve read, which you now seem to agree are not reliable sources.
I think the issue expands beyond the fact that there are good and bad people in every line of work. There’s an institutional culture at work in law enforcement that’s toxic in many ways.
Look, I know you have a weird perspective on these things, but let’s at least not say things that are outright falsehoods.
It is absolutely NOT “Common sense” that you narrate everything you do when speaking to a police officer. “Common sense” is something the great majority of people know and do. The vast majority of people do not, in fact, say out loud what they are doing when dealing with a police officer. I, personally, have never done that, have never witnessed anyone doing that, and I will bet you ten thousand dollars US, right now, that in any statistically significant study you wish to engage in, most people will not do that. So it’s not common sense. You’re wrong, full stop.
As has been pointed out, your claim is frankly kind of absurd. Nothing Jones could have done - as is plainly evident in the video - would not have been taken by Groubert as “reaching for a gun” because Groubert clearly had something wrong with him and was going to shoot Jones no matter what. *Groubert began trying to kill Jones after Jones was out of the car and obviously did not have a gun. *
Unfortunately I believe that your retired cop friend is correct. I have a few cops who are friends in our extended family. One is a newly promoted Chief of Police in a sort of small town, great guy, the example of community policing by officer friendly. Just a great guy.
One other guy is a city cop in the same town who fits the super-cop description. Nice family guy and otherwise normal person who sees everyone he deals with as guilty. He once told me that my son’s cell phone had been used to call a known drug house they were watching and that I should know he is using. He is also on the inter-agency drug task force. My son had let the brother of a former girl friend use his phone and after I talked to him he was pissed and put an end to that cell phone borrowing. But in the mind of my friend the cop, my son was already guilty.
We have drifted apart this few years, we were friends because all of our wives played on the same softball team. We would go camping at the various softball tournaments and drink beer while watching the kids and the games.
And he would always have his gun on his hip. In the afternoon at a softball field. Usually at a school or public park, in rural parts of the country. Don’t you think you could put that in the car during the game? Where is the danger out here in bum-fuck? He kept it because it was his power, and he would never let go of his power. Probably qualifies as both super-cop and bad cop.
This attitude and the belief that everyone they deal with is a pre-perp is at the heart of what is wrong with policing in the US. It isn’t the guns, I am one of this boards gun nuts, it is the attitude of the super-cop and the bad cops that needs to be dealt with. And it needs to be dealt with by the 60%, the good cops. They know who the bad cops are, just like everyone knows who the fuck-ups and potential dangers are in whatever job you have. The blue wall of protection needs to be broken down or all will be painted with the bad brush.
20% super-cop, 60% good cop, 20% bad cop is unfortunately right on the mark. The 60% need to break down the blue wall of silence that protects to others who should not be cops at all.
Far be it from me to defend someone like that, but the Little Rock PD requires their off duty officers to carry a firearm. The one that taught a driver’s ed class when I was a kid carried a small, light .22. 
You mean the one who pointed a pistol at the cops? A pistol that had been altered to make it look real?
Certainly.
Maybe it was.
This is the part I don’t understand.
The cop apparently shot him because he ran away. That is clearly unjustifiable, if that is what happened. Let’s take it as given that it did.
If the guy who got shot could see in the cop’s eyes that he was going to be shot if he ran away, how is it a good idea to run away? Or do you believe the guy could tell just by looking at the cop that the cop was going to shoot no matter what he did?
If the latter - could you describe how this was accomplished?
Or is this more “black people were lynched seventy years ago which proves that police routinely kill black people for no reason”.
Regards,
Shodan
Did you follow the Josh Hastings case? These teens were breaking into cars at an apartment complex. Hastings responded and ended up shooting one that was fleeing in a car. Hastings claimed they tried to run him down. He was put on trial twice with hung juries. The main issue was experts claimed the car wasn’t a threat to Hastings. He may have exaggerated to justify the shooting. It was a very close case.
What pissed me off was the stuff hidden from the jury. 1. a gun was found in the car 2. known gang member affiliation among the teens with criminal records. The defense attorney got hit with a contempt charge for trying mention the gang affiliation in front of the jury.
Its easy to forget just how dangerous it can be out there for the police. One officer completely alone against several gang bangers and there was a gun in that car. He’s lucky to be alive today.
I don’t know what the guy saw, but I think it’s entirely conceivable that he saw something in the cop’s eyes that said “RUN!”. The fact that this cop behaved in an irrational and murderous manner makes this more likely (to me, at least) – it seems more likely to me that the guy might have fled out of legitimate terror of death or bodily harm, considering that this cop was obviously very capable of inflicting death for no good reason.
I’m saying that maybe this guy saw DANGER in the cop’s eyes, and ran instinctively. The fact that this cop was, in fact, dangerous, increases this likelihood, I think.
And it’s very, very hard for me to judge harshly a guy who may have been literally fleeing in legitimate terror for his life.
I think two juries were unable to come to a verdict, and it was decided not to prosecute a third time.
LRPD officers are not allowed to fire at a moving vehicle. There may be some fine print here if they or someone else is in danger.
I’m just as confused as two juries were. LRPD did fire him, though, so I lean towards his at least not behaving as an officer should have.
It is indeed dangerous, policemen should in intelligent as well as brave.
On edit, attorneys can’t talk about some things. The kid may or may not have been a gang member, but that, according to leagalese, has nothing to do with whether or not he tried to hit the officer.
One presumes because whomever was not accused of brandishing a weapon. If one is a “gang banger” with any intention of hurting the police officer, one presumes the gun could have been used. I think the “he’s lucky to be alive today” stuff is hyperbole, unless you have facts to which you can point. The fact that an officer was prosecuted let alone tried twice (I gather) speaks more about the evidence against him than about the person he killed. That cops are ever prosecuted is extraordinary in and of itself; it’s **very **difficult to find a jury willing to enter guilty verdicts against them, regardless of the evidence (even when that evidence is overwhelming and on film, let alone when there is no video evidence).
A defense attorney would naturally be on dangerous ground if trying to slip in prejudicial evidence that isn’t probative of the actual situation.
Gale:
Alright ya’ hayseeds, it’s a stick-up. Everybody freeze. Everybody down on the ground.
Old Man in bank:
Well, which is it young feller? You want I should freeze or get down on the ground? Mean to say, if’n I freeze, I can’t rightly drop. And if’n I drop, I’ma gonna be in motion. You see…
Gale:
Shut up!
Old Man in bank:
Okay then.
Gale:
Everybody down on the ground!
Evelle:
Y’all can just forget that part about freezin’ now.
The militarization of the police, the submit-or-be-shot and the shoot-first problems are very much a result of the inability of the USA to get guns off the street. Even if the racial aspect is dealt with through social and economic reform, the blood-bath will remain highly disproportionate in comparison to other first world nations, simply because police in the USA face guns far more often than police in other first world nations. I don’t think the police culture in the USA will change any time soon, given how entrenched racism, poverty and guns are in the USA.
Have a look at the video interview of the fellow who made the vid of the murder. He describes what took place prior to his beginning to video. (The video interview is at the bottom of the linked article in post 158.)
A better link to the video interview of the videographer in which he describes what took place between the victim and the murderer prior to the videoing.
Do we know that the cop didn’t say to him, " you better start running, nigger, or I’ll shoot you where you stand"?
I know the intent here is to satirize, but really, this is good advice. A hostile encounter with a police officer is much like stumbling into the path of a mama grizzly fostering its young - it’s unpredictable, dangerous, and potentially deadly. The best thing you can do in the face of that kind of power is respect it.
Bears are not paid to, and expected to, protect the public. Bears are wild animals that might be expected to kill innocent people.
But when confronted by either, flailing about and yelling “Help! Help! I’m being repressed!” isn’t likely to help.
They are playing the dash-cam of the traffic stop and subsequent hot-foot on CNN right now. Everlast is playing in the background. Pretty bizarre.
Just my opinion, of course, but I believe police officers should have more restraint than wild animals.
![Surviving a [del]bear[/del] police encounter](http://i2.wp.com/christopherkeelty.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/SurvivingBearCop.jpg){kind=link}