What’s inherently different about striking the child with a belt rather than your hand? If the pain and damage inflicted is the same with both, why the major ethical difference?
Sure, as soon as it’s my child’s responsibility to raise me, feed me, clothe me, teach me manners and how to function in a society, and be held legally liable for my actions, It will be her right to discipline me as she sees fit.
:rolleyes:
You do more damage with a stick or an object or a closed fist than you do with a flat hand.
My son is almost 12, and so far I’ve never had cause -nor the inclination- to spank him. He’s well-behaved and well-adjusted.
I just can’t understand why someone would need a belt, or a hair brush, or a “switch”, or any other kind of force multiplier to spank a child. Can’t you hit them hard enough with your hand? Does the additional terror inflicted while waiting for the instrument to be located/displayed/wielded contribute positively to the outcome?
I’ll say this --and it’s only a personal observation-- : The kids I know that were “whupped” with means other than the hand were usually the most unruly kids. Now, does that mean that they were the most likely to be whipped because they were the most out of control, or were they the most out of control because they were whipped?.
It seems reasonable to me. If a child does not have the right not to be hit, then why should we expect them to respect the right of others not to be hit? Because the person hitting them can hit harder then the child?
Maybe per blow, but the end result is not necessarily any greater. It is certainly possible to spank a child with, say, a wooden paddle and not inflict excessive pain or damage. When I attended Catholic school I occasionally was struck along my knuckles with a wooden ruler by the nun teaching the class (another subhuman piece of garbage, no doubt) and I don’t think the effect was any worse than what my mother would give me with the flat of her hand.
Another thing: If a child is legally responsible for your actions, what action can you take if your child does spank you?
My parents never spanked me once and I like to think I turned out okay. Mostly the reason is, I was a big boy. I was bigger than my mom and stronger than my dad by middle school and them hitting me wasn’t exactly a deterrent and they knew that. I was constantly in pain for doing stupid things with my cousin anyhow.
The found out what I enjoyed and removed it. I enjoy TV. I don’t watch it because I have nothing better to do, I legitimately enjoy it. I also hated to practice the piano. My punishments were either no TV for a rather extended period of time or I was forced to practice the piano for an extra hour per day.
They also never grounded me. The reasoning behind this is simple. I was a terribly shy child and rarely left the security of my parents house anyhow so forbidding me to leave was rather senseless (incidentally, I live in the country so my parents/uncle/grandparents compound has 250 acres and that is what I mean by never left the security of my parents house).
Anyhow, all I’m saying is, punishment should be moulded to fit the child, not a one size fits all thing. For this reason, laws against spanking ARE more harm than good, but at the same time shouldn’t be used on every child.
It’d be much easier if children just had pain meters installed.
Damnable brats.
Hitting children is very rarely a good idea, and it usually doesn’t accomplish its objective. This is because the experience of being beaten by your parent is a more memorable event than the behavior that made them mad. I remember being in my room trying to hold the door shut against my dad after he went off screaming to get his belt, and I remember my absolute despair that I was so small and powerless. But I have absolutely no idea what I did that made him mad.
It is my experience a well-adjusted, loving home is also a benevolent dictatorship.
Having said that, I can recall a few instances where my behavior resulted in a spanking - open hand on the butt. When I got taller than my mother, on at least one occasion she used an open hand across the top of my head. She used her left hand – the one with the WWII-era half-inch wide gold wedding band that weighed nothing but did the trick.
While the study of child punishment has taken leaps and bounds since I was a kid, along with the neverending debate about such punishments (including here), a personal observation come to mind:
– Some kids are raised in pure hell households and turn out fine, while others raised in a foundation of love and understanding households turn out to be the scum of the earth. Each experience is unique and it’s dangerous to make assumptions which satisfy all along the continuum.
Having said that, it’s also my observation that parents of today who try the current new age style approach to discipline (effectively no spankings and attempting to reason with a child - yeah, even two-year olds - cut me some slack!) have kids who are ill-mannered, rude and complete ratbags.
I see lotsa spoiled ratbags these days and according to my octogenarian mother, my generation was never that bad as kids are today. Wide-sweeping generalization - we were disciplined; many kids today are not.
Spare the rod and spoil the child is still accurate as far as I’m concerned. Just use your hand, preferably your ring finger with a WWII-era half-inch wide gold wedding band. It weighs nothing but does the trick.
Bolding is mine in the above quote. I love how things escalate… 
Also the note -----
-------- With this kind of up bringing it is not a wonder that you are a bit stringent about the subject, I would be too.
There are 7 children in my parents family. I was never spanked or hit in anger or after the fact. Several of my siblings would almost die just from a look from my parents. There were several that were “brought up sharply” within nano seconds of our misbehavior. Never done in anger or excessive force.
Catholic schools here also. It was a badge of honor to take out licks like adults. we deserved them. Knew that if caught, that was the consequence. I learned early in life that someone always has the hammer. I do not do like the smart mouth kids of today and give lip to the cop who stopped me for speeding. I was, I got caught. end of story. A large majority of today’s kids, (non from this MB of course) do not get it and wonder why they don’t ever get any slack and why the police PICK on them. Bwhahahahah…
As a slight aside, the word is “corporal”, as in “corporal” punishment, not “corporeal”.
I’m nay on spanking. If you have a child, you should either shoot it when it flies out the shoot, or make a commitment to not spank that child for coercing it to live. I find that those who spank are demented; the world is harsh enough already.
-Justhink
I can understand the disquiet about spanking depending on personal upbringing. It seems that a lot of people base their opinions on this topic based on their own experiences. I see many people in this thread saying “I was spanked and I turned out just fine”. I would fall into the opposite camp – I feel uncomfortable supporting any physical punishment against kids, because any physical punishment I got as a kid was very negative and done in anger (this usually occurred in the household when one of our parents, who has both a nasty temper and abusive inclinations, was bothered and would lose control of his temper, instead of based on breaking a rule and actual discipline).
I would be very hesitant to use physical force on a child because, honestly, I don’t understand how I could do so in a constructive way. In all of my experience, getting slapped or threatened with being hit was always a frightening, upsetting, and often bewildering experience. (It only occurred when I was really too young to question what was going on.) It still actually makes me cringe internally to think of it. I was one of the kids who was actually afraid of physical harm from a parent, even though the damage was never severe – it was just because I knew it was lashing out in anger and that he couldn’t control his behavior that it terrified me. (Like Nightime, I had occasions that I got so afraid that I literally ran away and tried to hold the door shut as my father raged and bashed it open.)
In short, I don’t understand how hitting a child comes out of love and not out of anger because I have never experienced it in that sense.
I think that a lot of the vehement pro- and anti-spanking feeling comes out of this experience. On the one hand, the pro-spanking camp isn’t as critical of the potential for abuse as they might be; on the other hand, the anti-spanking camp doesn’t permit that spanking is ever acceptable. It’s a difficult subject because it’s hard to quantify abuse. ‘Leaving a mark’ is not the only criteria for abuse here. Parents striking kids because they are angry and upset isn’t something that I find acceptable, and this is often how you see physical discipline happening (though of course not always).
It’s hard to find a balance between giving parents the leeway to raise their kids freely but also protect children from abuse.
Thanks for opening this thread so I don’t hijack the other one.
My issue with Jersey Diamond was because of this quote:
I responded with this question:
and Jersey Diamond responded thusly:
and finally…I responded with…
So, I shall await her answer here…and have left a post over on the original thread to that affect.
(Just wanted to catch everyone up.)
When I was a child no one cared about abused children and there wasnt any defined laws against child abuse. My “father” figure and I use that term loosely would beat me so bad sometimes I would miss school for weeks at a time. I am sure people knew what the bruises and lashes were from but no one had the nerve to stand up for what was right for the children.
I agree that something has to be done about the abuse people inflict on there kids…but I DON’T like where the laws are going. It has gotten to the point where you cant tap your child on the butt without fear of going to jail. I personally wont use a belt on my children but that is a choice I make for myself and it should be left up to the parent. People are even being videotaped when they go to the grocery store with their children, for instance http://www.wndu.com/news/092002/news_16224.php .The woman in question did hit her child rather hard and excessively, but what about the next mother or father that needs to spank their kids when they act up in the store. Should they let their children get away with being rude, obnoxious, and inconsiderate for fear that some surveillance camera might tape them?
I think the naysayers would be better off finding and punishing the true abusers, rather than spending their time and energy condeming good parents.My mother and father disciplined me with corporeal punishment, with belt, hand and switch. You know you did something really really bad when you heard my mother say “Go cut me a switch” ;>. Every time I was punished I can say that I deserved it and I’m glad they did it. It was never done in anger or caused me any lasting harm but it did make a point and I certainly learned from it. I’m not sure whether I will use corporeal punishment with my kids, I’d like to believe it won’t be necessary but I’m not quite that naive so I’ll wait and see.
Anybody brave enough to call my parents a “subhuman piece of garbage” to my face had better be ready for punishment of a different sort.
Asshole.
Please, please do not hit your child with a belt. You never know for sure what physical, mental and emotional damage it may be causing. By the time you know, it is too late.
Can’t you use your imaginations and come up with something more effective and less detrimental? Shorten her shoulder length hair by three inches – she’ll remember. But the damage is not permanent. Give his skateboard to Goodwill. He’ll get the idea. Force feed them Brussel sprouts or pork brains!
Some people just aren’t very bright lokij.
If I had a child and determined that I was going to spank them before having that child; I would be having that child for the sole purpose of spanking them. What’s the point in that? Not many people seem to think ahead. I’m glad that you’ve managed to validate yourself lokij; but you must be aware that people are born who never wish they had been born. I believe some measure of respect is to be afforded to new children in that regard.
“Great, so you had a child to beat them.”
“No, they deserved it.”
“Great, so you’re stupid too - that child didn’t have to be born.”
-Justhink